Another Boeing 737 Max-8 crash

Exactly what I was thinking and I only have 14 employees. Human beings are strange and all of them say a lot of stupid stuff, verbally and via email.

 

Verbally is Ok, never ever put it in an email.

 

I have lost count of the number of emails that I have never sent, never written, or never even considered. I know that every single keystroke is logged at my work, so there are times that I hover over the "reply" button for a solid minute before I decide my next step.

But I'm not at work today, yet I still have issues writing in this thread as I am employed by the company in the subject line of this thread. See? I can't even type out the company name as I know that there are employees who perform term searches in all kinds of social media. The last thing I want is to be featured in one of the ethics topics in the company news.

 

If your company is mentioned in the title of this thread it appears they should be attending someone else's ethics classes as their classes seem to be flawed and not working very well.

 

There are some significant concerns with the moral positions of past and current executive leadership, but I can say with strong conviction, based on decades of experience and exposure, that the folks building these aircraft are some of the most responsible mechanics/machinists/perfectionists that I have had the pleasure of working with. I may have issues with lots of them based on personality (they are human), but their dedication to creating the best product possible, regardless of any internal or external factors, is commendable. All of the ongoing "leadership" business is really frustrating for those who want to do the best job possible, just like at pretty much every other company. However, we just happen to have a lot of visibility at this moment.

 

That's always the case. Those doing the actual work are almost never the shit bags that the folks running place seem to be.

 

Agree, finally just said "That's It I Quit" after an Ethics Campaign at my employer that even the CEO had to take the course and sign the pledge. One week later at the weekly sales meeting, new boss said we must sell this product this way. The produce won't produce the result the client was paying for. Challenged him to it about ethics, etc. Next day I retired for good. My letter of resignation mentioned the ethics problem .

 

I can honestly say that at the nuke plant where I worked I never experienced intentional malfeasance. Lazy, sure. All kinds of union BS but never intentional poor workmanship. Now regarding e-mail nonsense....too much of that. One time we had an engineer that quit and before they canceled his access to the server he let loose from home. If you read that you would either laugh or have a coronary. It's probably somewhere stored in the skynet just waiting for a greenie to subpoena it....

 

Damn I wish, I’d kill for some guys in the mill that gave a shit and had a can do attitude. We’ve got a new production manager now who’s doing great but still have some bad people we need to move out

 

I’ve no doubt that there are some outstanding people in that organization, and like any business - there are always going to be a few turds.

USAF’s repeated stoppage of KC-45 deliveries indicates that production line management didn’t care enough to audit the assembly work.

 

Lazy and a shitty work ethic aren't the same as some one so morally flexible they'd make a decision that puts the lives of innocent people at risk deliberately.

 

Ah yeah I missed that part! Definitely right

 

Not 737 Max news, but the long awaited 777x took its first flight the other day

https://thepointsguy.com/news/boeing-777x-first-flight/

 

I'm ignoring a lot of the other stuff, which is just the usual press BS. But these statements are incorrect. A few emails from engineers in a company of thousands of engineers. Hello, have you ever worked with engineers??

We know more now, the Indonesian report is complete, and while they definitely omit alot, what they include is very damning. The airplane was flying broken for at least 11 days, they never made a proper attempt to fix it, destroyed or altered records, and never contacted the Boeing tech rep for the area, who is there to specifically work with companies like this and new aircraft they have purchased. 1 in 7 mechanics at Lion Air is "trained". This is all in their report, which at the end, blames Boeing. But the facts don't support that conclusion by a long shot. They continued to fly an aircraft with a major safety of flight system malfunctioning. It was malfunctioning badly enough that any sane crew in the US would have turned around and landed, but that never happened at Lion Air, not once in 11 days, including the accident flight.

The Lion Air Flight crew never ran ANY checklist. The first item on the Unreliable Airspeed checklist is disconnect autopilot and autothrottle. They did neither- the Co Pilot had documented training failures, and ignored the captain's requests for the checklist. The captain successfully flew the airplane manually for 10 minutes, manually trimming against the speed trim, raising the flaps (which activated MCAS) then re-extending the flaps (disabling MCAS) while the First Officer flipped pages looking for the wrong checklist. Never ran the Trim Runaway checklist or Unreliable Airspeed checklist. With the auto throttle engaged, they continued to accelerate way past the redline, as did the Ethiopian crew, from what little we know. After 10 minutes, the Captain handed over control to the first officer, so he could attempt to troubleshoot the situation since the FO was apparently unable to locate, read, or follow basic checklist commands. Within 1-2 minutes the FO lost complete control and they crashed.

What @Newsshooter is referring to is if the airplane is grossly out of trim, and you allow it to accelerate past the redline or close to it because you never pulled the power back, then disengage the electric trim, it is very hard to manually move the stabilizer trim. This never happened in the Lion Air Crash, supposedly this happened in the Ethiopian crash, but we don't know as the Ethiopians have yet to release any data or reports, and probably never will. This can happen in any jet transport aircraft. In fact, pretty much any aircraft can be flown into a regime where it is not recoverable. It's the pilot's job to stop it from getting to that place.

Sort of like if you turn off the traction control on your R1, lean it over to the max and pin it in first gear. Is it Yamaha's fault you crashed?

Read the Lion Air report. It's eye opening. These are the Indonesian's own words and facts. Boeing definitely made some errors with the MCAS programming, but NOTHING that warrants what they are putting the company and it's people through now.

That airplane is fine, this is all a political/ media sound bite quest and Boeing is the big target.

The FACTS are that if you get on any airplane in a third world country, you are accepting a lower standard of training, maintenance, and safety.

What galls me is that all of this shit that the MAX is going through would not have prevented either of these accidents. We are, for the first time, ignoring the facts and going backwards on aviation safety by not addressing the real issues, in favor of more clicks.

Fly safe!

/rant

 

Reports saying another Boeing crash in Afghan (not a 737 Max).

Company can’t catch a break

 

It's a weird one because the initial report said it was the Afghani state owned airline that lost a plane and the airline is saying all 4 of its planes are safe. It crashed into Taliban controlled country so that's sure to add to any confusion, but I'd think an airline would know if it's planes are accounted for ot not.

 

@Gino230,
Can you furnish a link to the Lion Air 610 Final Report?
I can't seem to find it.
Thx in advance.

FWIW, a good friend recently retired from 25+ years @ Boeing Flight Test.
He was brought back (as a contractor), and has been logging MANY flight hours in support of the 737MAX recert effort. Says the pay is "Not bad at all."

.

 

The plane that crashed in Afghan is reportedly a USAF e-11a battlefield comms plane, made by Bombardier.

 

Not a Boeing product.
The E-11A BACN accident aircraft was built by Bombardier Aviation in Canada.

EDIT - ducrcr beat me to it!

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