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2010 Kid Youth Series begins planning

Discussion in '2-Stroke Machines' started by RepliChallenge, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. SteveThompson

    SteveThompson Banned by amafan

    :stupid:
     
  2. Rad625

    Rad625 Well-Known Member

    125 and 250 with WERA
     
  3. edehaven

    edehaven Eric DeHaven SoCalRaceDad

    Ok so I have sat back and watched this play out.
    Its a funny thing.
    Frank, I have nothing against you personally, we have spoken on the phone a few times and all.

    Here is my problem with all this.
    and this is just my 2 cents worth.
    To make a NEW idea viable you need it to include a NEW idea. Not the same thing over and over.
    You have tried to sell this on everyone for a few years now, no one is buying. You keep making points about cost, bikes, blah blah.

    Here is the simple fact. I can build an RS85 for around $2000, race it in both mini races at go-kart tracks all over the US or jump up to big tracks with WERA and still have a faster bike then this Aprilia. PERIOD.
    Cost to run an RS85 is next to nothing, its a run of the mill dirt bike motor and tires last all season. All the kids you see going well now came up this way and will continue to do so for many years. Another series like your idea is just adding to a crowded room with plenty of other systems in place that work well. Dont be like the DMG and believe there is some pot of gold with 30 kids parents willing to put them on $70k 450's. That pot doesn't exist. There are only a handful of willing parents and top level kids out there at this point and we dont need another series to fragment it even more.

    Also you made a comment and I quote

    Frank, come on. You and I have talked about this. It makes no difference what bike and what series you are running to get a ride in Europe. What makes the difference is $$$. A competitive seat in any European series is going to run you between $60k and $120k a season and you know as well as I do, if I show up with the cash I will get my kid a ride no matter what he or she has raced before. Its a business plain and simple.
    There are no paid or free seats in the CEV for Americans let alone most anyone else (maybe if your a big time Spanish kid, but even then you need a big sponsor like Bancaja to fund it for you)
    European series sponsors see no value in American riders as they do not relate well to the key customer base they are trying to sell to. Americans are not the best to represent a Spanish bank, a Spanish kid is..
    So trying to sell your bikes based on a dream that if you ride one its going to get your kid a ride.. Your starting to sound like the businessmen that tried to sell all of us $100k rides in Europe.

    So I digress, Frank, take a break on the aprilia possibly. Consider getting involved with a mini series. Take the money you are eager to spend and put up a 3 or so race mini series where the winner gets a test with your CEV team or something. Or even put up a little cash and do that same idea with the WERA 125 class. Get a sponsor to cover costs for the national champion to ride for you in the CEV.
    Get your brain working on overdrive, lets get some new ideas out there.

    Anyway just my 2c.
     
  4. Rad625

    Rad625 Well-Known Member

    Sounds good eric what's up how is Austin doing saw some of his race results doing good see ya Rich
     
  5. Inquizid

    Inquizid Member Well-Known

    What about this?

    Running these bikes against the Ninja 250s....similar HP.....similar investment?

    Then we can have an old fashioned 2T vs 4T series..not just for the youth but for anyone...thoughts?
     
  6. vince224

    vince224 Well-Known Member

    hi frank,

    mtc: if you want your gig to work, it needs to have a tangible benefit to the participants at the END of the day. whether that is purse money, contingency, a specific segue into something 'bigger', a nice BJ or whatever, that is what it needs to work. right now, a participant gets "a cheap bike" and a "level playing field"...and nothing to show for it at the END of the day other than a reputed slug of a motorbike. i dont think that alone will cut it, those elements already exist in many different forms.

    again, just mtc...

    vince
    :D
     
  7. Eric,

    Got it, thanks for your insight.

    Rich,

    Please take your chit chat to Eric back channel?

    Vince,

    Kind of like that incentive you get from running the USGPRU? C'mon, your racing and spending money even when you win. Right?

    Starting to feel like Morpheius on the Matrix....."never try to free a mind once its too old"......the effects can be very negative.


    This is motorpsorts racing guys, were out there to BEAT COMPETITION.

    Competition only exist in a thriving, structured environment where ALL get a shot to BE the champion.

    Lacking enough $$ TRUE competition will not exist, Look at many other examples. But, ooooo you gotta look.

    Please, show me COMPETITION in that definition above, in this country, and dont tell me the mini clubs, I have watched the videos.

    My 2 cents

    I dont care about "making friends" in this industry, thats a much overlooked liability to success. You dont have to be a jerk, its true, but NEW ideas dont hold in the face of people who have "biased" intention.

    In short, what your all telling me is " buy" your loyalty with money, and you will support this idea?

    Thats the final analysis I see, and it goes back to what I have known since day one. Most ( NOT ALL ) in this sport think ONLY about their own immediate benefit financially, and thereof wind up with SHORT term perspectives on racing, and youth development.

    This does NOT help the riders of the future ( after your rider moves on) and put something there for them to grow into if we always think only about here, now, and how much can I put in my pocket while putting MY kid on the track?

    I have never done anything but SPEND money to help growth in this industry. Havent made dime of profit yet. Others have HAPPILY taken it when I put it out there, then (usually) throw stones later when I dont....LOL

    Pretty selfish viewpoint in my opinion. But thats just me, what the hell do I know. I get my kicks in P1 these days, a much more competitive motorsport.

    Starting to feel like Morpheius on The Matrix....."never free a mind once its too old" .....the effects can be brutal
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009
  8. Coke in can

    Coke in can Banned

    only thing left to be said...


    [​IMG]
     
  9. badger278

    badger278 Member

    new ideas

    I love racing the HRC RS125 more than any other bike I have raced. It's simple to work on, parts are readily available and we can race them just about everywhere.

    From what I've seen racing the kids, they are aggressive, very fast and professional.

    I like the idea of a cheaper platform for kids, but the reality is that the good competition is what builds young racers. The 125GP class is a level playing field with tons of riders.

    What would be really helpful for developing young riders in the 125 class is a mentor program (for dads and kids) making the entry into racing easier and safer.

    I for one, would love to help where I can.

    Mongo, how about a 125 starter event next year where some of us old guys can take totally new kids and dads around the ins and outs of racing, and tuning a two-smoke, on a one on one basis?
     
  10. Inquizid

    Inquizid Member Well-Known

    Was this so outlandish?

    That it didn't warrant a response?
     
  11. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    Hunter, I don't think the stock Aprilia is that close to the Ninja. You'd need to propose the idea to Mongo though and look at what mods would make it close to the Ninja.
     
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Sounds like a good idea, once we get closer to the start of the season remind me and we'll try to figure out some ideas.
     
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I'd have responded but I don't know the answer. I would consider letting the Aprilia into ESS no problem. Should be easy enough to keep it at the same level of mods - SS but no motor work at all.
     
  14. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    Sean, I think there should be a handful of things allowed to the Aprilia, engine wise. Mods for a 4s engine can be extensive. Mods for a 2s engine aren't near as extensive. There are a few key changes I can see the Aprilia needing. First and foremost is that carb. What about reed changes? I'd think someone with really extensive knowledge of the Aprilia would need to chime in.
     
  15. Inquizid

    Inquizid Member Well-Known

    Well I wouldn't say extensive...

    just yet but...the knowledge is growing

    I have done the V force reed valves, that's all I've done so far. (KISS method)

    Over the winter the plan is for the 34mm carb (premix) and maybe some motor work depending on what the gracious and most wonderful lords oh WERA might limit me to, IF they let me chase the Ninjas. You're right Clay the bike would need some tweaking but it sure would hang better than it does (not) with the GP bikes. The winter wish list is long and includes everything from suspension to exhaust.

    It just seems like a better slot, whether or not it works out, it is certainly a much wiser direction of conversation than this stalemate of an argument. People said "come up with something new" here so I offered my 2-5 cents worth.

    And again the idea of the 2T vs 4T would give us 2 smoke guys a reason to smile....hopefully....(that is if I get in enough much needed practice this winter).
     
  16. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    I definitely think you're on the right idea with this Hunter. And, Frank, I think this is something that you should also look into if you want to support the Aprilia idea.
     
  17. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Oy vey, another bike that needs it own set of very specific rules.... I bet I'll regret this at some point.
     
  18. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    LOL. Well, I'm thinking this would be more of a performance indexing thing if it was to work. I can say right now, with just a pipe and "jetting", the Aprilia would not be competitive against the 250s. Are carbs allowed? Just knowing that it's got a 28mm carb on it makes me think that's the BIGGEST weak link in the bike that's easily remedied. Maybe start with keeping the engine stock, but allowing the carb change. Just a thought. :eek:)
     
  19. Inquizid

    Inquizid Member Well-Known

    Hey now...

    I didn't ask for no DMG/Buell type rule change....And if I'm still the only one out there on this bike then by all means don't change a working rulebook for my sake, I'm happy endurance racing the 125GP for one more year. Then it's on to another bike, (Hmm choices).

    But check out the feedback on the Ape forum....seems like this might already have some traction...

    http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189162
     
  20. edehaven

    edehaven Eric DeHaven SoCalRaceDad

    And that there is the problem with youtube. I can point to 3 or more solid mini clubs with intense competition, fairly large grids and a stock of very fast older riders for the kids to learn from.
    Frank stop watching youtube videos and get out to talk to more families actually racing. Not just the ones you were trying to get to ride your bike in Spain.

    No we are saying backup your ideas with incentive to buy the bike you propose, which has limited application in regards to legal classes. look at what Honda did with the Morawaki. The incentive got the momentum going.

    Frank I have really tried to be unbiased. But seriously.
    Are you trying to say that (most, but not all) parents out there are trying to make money at this game. Can I get some of whatever it is your smoking :);)
    I can say that I know personally (most, if not close to all) of the parents with kids road racing out there in the US and I can tell you not ONE..! not a single one is making a dime, we are spending through our teeth. Giving up every dollar our families make to get our kids on the grid.
    SHORT TERM.. again, WTF. I would love to help out every kid in the US but I can barely eat week to week keeping my own kid on the grid. My family makes such a big sacrifice that I am surprised I am still married, have a roof over my head and food on the table, because there are weeks its in question.
    Our kids, almost all of them are what the long term is. They give back, Austin goes out and helps the younger riders all the time. Helping them with riding and insight, tips at different tracks, etc. The older riders like Josh Herrin and Tommy Aquino give the kids like Austin someone who they know who has made it to the level they aspire and serve as a goal and inspriation.

    Comments like you just made are why so many people shut you down.

    YOU are trying to start something new, not us parents. You want to create something to supposedly develop new talent, not us parents as we mostly think what we have is working.
    So if YOU want change then you need to create incentive for that change, stats, specs and numbers on a sheet are not going to do anything, especially when they are not as good as what currently exists.

    You have made more posts yourself then every parent has ever, combined, about needing a better way to grow young talent. Maybe that might be saying something about how us parents feel about where things are at. Sure its not perfect, but its not bad either.
     

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