2004 GSXR clutch switch

Discussion in 'Tech' started by rogers1323, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. rogers1323

    rogers1323 Well-Known Member

    I know you guys will just refer me back to the previous threads, but is there anyone here with the '04 600 that can tell me the bike either is or is not affected by removing the clutch switch. I've been riding it for a while, and have been pulled by a couple people on power when I didn't think I should have been. But on the other hand, I haven't thought it was really down on power and I hate to think I'm that unobservant.
     
  2. RM Racing

    RM Racing Tool user

    Disconnecting the switch will permanently fool the ECU into thinking the bike is in neutral and you will have a weak map in every gear. Just put it back, it doesn't take that much effort to pull in the clutch when you start the bike.
     
  3. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member

    What the Hell is a Weak map? Show me some proof, other than someone else saying hell yeah your gonna have a weak map. :confused:
     
  4. RM Racing

    RM Racing Tool user

    The Suzuki ECU has different mapping for different gears, at least in the most recent models. If you need proof, run it on the dyno. Fourth gear is the best map, that's why there are companies out there that make units that fool the ECU into thinking it's in fourth all the time. Yes, you can buy such a device, I have several. Reasoning for differening maps, at least for streetbikes, includes wheelie control, etc. We have fuel management issues occasionally, with the second gear map and have to use the kit ECU to correct it. The issues don't exist, or are at least less prominent, in the higher gears.

    If you still don't believe me, I don't care. Have fun flaming.
     
  5. Gopher Greg

    Gopher Greg Old...Eh, what? Ohh.

    1.Remove switch.
    2.splice wires together
    3.Remove wire to ECU
    Now, safety switch is made up and circuit is complete to starter relay. ECU doesn't see the clutch pulled in and doesn't use the retarded timing and lower rev limit. (Rev limit is 12,250 according to my manual when clutch is in.)

    Near as I've been able to figure, there are 10 maps for timing in the ECU. 5 for each set of cylinders 1,4 and 2,3. There seems to be damn little trim to them by TP and MAP.

    The wire t tapped into the clutch switch to the ECU drops a binary input to ground (force low) to tell the ECU to go to the rev limited map. At this point, the ECU appears to ignore the Gear position sw and your TRE mod is wasted.

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. Gopher Greg

    Gopher Greg Old...Eh, what? Ohh.

    1.Remove switch.
    2.splice wires together
    3.Remove wire to ECU
    Now, safety switch is made up and circuit is complete to starter relay. ECU doesn't see the clutch pulled in and doesn't use the retarded timing and lower rev limit. (Rev limit is 12,250 according to my manual when clutch is in.)

    Near as I've been able to figure, there are 10 maps for timing in the ECU. 5 for each set of cylinders 1,4 and 2,3. There seems to be damn little trim to them by TP and MAP.

    The wire t tapped into the clutch switch to the ECU drops a binary input to ground (force low) to tell the ECU to go to the rev limited map. At this point, the ECU appears to ignore the Gear position sw and your TRE mod is wasted.

    Hope this helps.
     
  7. rogers1323

    rogers1323 Well-Known Member

    The thing is, while it's possible that I'm not making great power, I'm banging the thing off the rev limiter in any gear I want. And I mean 15,500, nothing less. So I know my redline isn't being affected, I'm just curious about the power output. Is it safe to say that if my redline isn't affected, then the power output isnt either?
     
  8. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member

    Um that would be 5th gear, but it's statements like the one above that cause me to ask certain questions, incorrect info gets people in trouble. No one is flaming you, i just like to see hard evidence, to support such statements. Where would i find such proof as to these multiple maps, in a suzuki manual? When i get a few mins of down time i will revisit this on a dyno, a friend of mine wouldn't mind letting me use his, so i may just see if i can find a 06 750 today, make some comparison runs and get back to you on this. If you don't mind what runs should i make to verify this info.
     
  9. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member

    where in the suzuki manual did you find this info? The service manul shows nothing to support that fact, and if so please show me, and i'll accept defeat. 2004-2005 gsxr 750 a page number will suffice. the switch is just that, a switch, switch to ground.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  10. Gopher Greg

    Gopher Greg Old...Eh, what? Ohh.

    Use an eddy current dyno so you can load the bike to road conditions. (10% works well) Set up your configuration screen to show RPM, gear position, timing and speed.
    Run through the gears to the rev limit in each gear and compare the data.
    I used a SF200EC dyno to test mine.
    (You need to get a crank position signal from the engine to use as a comparison point for the ign timing. )
     
  11. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member


    so were all on the same page, say a 2004-05 gsxr 750 should redline at what rpm with the clutch swith wires constantly attached? and at what rpm if not attached?

    and would you mind e-mailing me your test results ajcycleperf@aol.com
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  12. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member

    Ok Where'd ya go, still waiting for some info here. Concrete info i have a 06 750 and 1000 coming in today. we will perform a controlled test, Becasue I callBull SHIT
     
  13. Buckwild

    Buckwild Radical

    You're cut off from the coffee pot T.
     
  14. Gopher Greg

    Gopher Greg Old...Eh, what? Ohh.

    Ok, HR. Not everyone lives in front of a computer.
    If you are so damn interested, read the freaking factory manual or run the test yourself.
    Do your own research if you won't believe anyone else!

    /Fez mode ON "Good Day, I said, GOOD DAY!" /Fez mode OFF
     
  15. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member


    I have, run the test with my own gsxr 600's 01, 02, 04 and that is why i call Bull shit, you've stated your opinion, now all i'm doing is asking you to show proof of your findings, a simple page # from a service manual would do!
     
  16. rogers1323

    rogers1323 Well-Known Member

    Ok, so I'll let you two keep fighting it out, but you just said that you have tested it on a 2004 600? And didn't find any loss in HP or rev limit. I'm clearly hitting normal redline, so that isn't a concern. But you haven't seen anything to suggest that you lose HP through this? Thanks for the info.
     
  17. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member

    You are fine with a constant connection. I'm not trying to fight, just a little annoyed with people who have been peddling this hoopla for years and have shown no concrete evidence to support it. A freakin page number out a service manual supporting their claim would end this for me. I made it a point this morning to look at all the race bike's I've set up and ran on the dyno, to see if there was a loss of hp or a drop in rpm's. I have yet to see 1, furthermore i went through the service manual looking for these so called maps,:rolleyes:. a schematic of the fuel delivery system shows the clutch switch, as a switch to ground, nothing more. the ground wire runs so much trash outside of the fuel system it's not even funny, the positive side runs through another switch, a relay and something else before it even goes into emc, and all of that looks the be set in a series. the clutch system isn't monitored by the ecu, if it was, they would have given it a tc, just in case there was a problem in correlation to fuel delivery. It's a freaking button, all this interpetation is bunk, weak maps, loss of rpms load no load wtf. Fuckit TUPAC Crashed my bike at nelsons.
     
  18. Putter

    Putter Ain't too proud to beg

    T- You are phatter than a cheap pack of bacon.
     
  19. beathiswon

    beathiswon Well-Known Member

    Well just to let you know when I first got my 05 750, I jumped the clutch switch wire to get rid of the switch. Then I noticed the rev limiter kicked in around 350rpm early. (I think that's about the right rpm, it's been over a year since it was done) anyways I hooked the switch back up and ran it again, in gear, in nuetral, on the stand, while riding, and the rpm's returned. Jumped the switch again with the same tests and lost the same amout of rpm's. So on my bike that part is true. The different maps etc. I can't say.
     
  20. Handicapped Racer

    Handicapped Racer Well-Known Member

    http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=115605

    I got a brigde to sell all you hot bama's right next to a new one, it's not being used, so it can be yours for a small fee, That is until they tear it down, until then it's your. all these picture posters on the web computer gur's and no one has posted a dyno sheet or offered a page # from a genuine service manual to support this bull shit. Funny, just plain ol funny. Man i need to find the guy who started this Clutch switch Cult! LMAO! You all have fun ya hear!
     

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