I pulled 10k lbs from Prescott AZ to Ventura, CA, with a 2019 f250 6.7 power stroke diesel. Average mpg was 9, doing 60ish once I hit Cali, because they have a 55mph speed limit while towing. Nothing special about the stock f250, but my previous truck, pulling the same toy hauler, got about 4mpg (2013 tundra 5.7 gasser) While still in AZ the speed limit is 75 on the I 10. So I pulled close to that. Overall, I would never tow that trailer again with a gasser, fuel mileage and cost be damned, it just a much more stable and comfortable ride in the diesel. Hitting 7 bucks per gallon in California vs 3.50 a gallon for diesel in AZ also has an impact, I dont intend to cross that border again if I can avoid it.
One thing a ton of guys don't realize when they say their 3/4 ton is much more stable towing than a 1/2ton is tires make the difference. Every half ton has P rated tires. 3/4 tons have LT tire. Switch tires and the drive while towing is dramatically improved. I had a 2017 Tundra. Towed a 20ft open trailer with a SxS in the box, 1 SxS and 2 atvs on the trailer. Towed awesome. Was on LT tires, and got 9mpg doing 68mph driving 6hrs north.
I do 30mpg at 75 mph with my bike on the kendon in my Mazda 3. Of course, it's mediocre in every other department.
Towing what with what? I agree with Darrin, aero/towing speed has far more of an impact than weight. I've probably got close to 100k miles pulling my toy hauler around, from empty, to completely full, and average. And nothing makes more of an impact than how fast I tow and which direction I go. Heading to PittRace and dealing with the hills always has more hit on mileage than say driving to Roebling where it's all flat. Sure, if you could add a theoretical 50,000lbs extra in our trailers our mileage would noticeably go down, but what I'm saying is that the variance of ~3-4,000lbs of trailer weight is insignificant in regards to mileage compared to towing at 70 vs 80mph.
And while you are doing that......"at above speed limit speeds", try to remember that most trailer tires (ST designation on the beginning of the tire size) will have a speed rating that is much lower than the car tires. Excessive speeds and improper inflation contribute more than anything else to trailer tire blowouts.......I'm just sayin'
You sir, are 100% correct about the aero and towing speed, and how it adversely affects mpg. I'm painfully aware of that too as my 44' long, 20K lbs, and 13'5" Momentum Toy Hauler is not exactly "svelte" when it comes to cutting through the air with all that frontal area or the trailer. I try to keep things in the 68 to 70 mph range on the Interstates, and I know that if I slowed down even more, the mpg would go up a bit.
I can tell you doing 80+ from Georgia to Florida dragging a 7x14 is really hard on them. I destroyed a set doing just that.
So new vehicles are engineered to pass the EPA test and screw every other situation? I would love to see the data on actual real-world lifetime numbers. I'd bet they're significantly lower because of the unrealistic mandated regs. I can't think of any other reason why 20+ years of engineering 'progress' makes a worse vehicle.
Ive seen the engineering speak. But I think of EPA emissions mandates in the same way I think of my narcissistic toxic ex: I prefer lots of distance and no communications with her. Cause they make my blood boil.
When you say EPA test are you referring to the fuel mileage profile? My understanding is thats an estimate / calculation and not a real test that has to be met or performed. Since dieselgate Im pretty certain the exhaust standards are probably met under all conditions?
13K bumper pull toy hauler with a 6.0L gas 2500. I can see a difference in mileage pulling my trailer with empty tanks (water, waste and fuel) and no bikes in the garage, versus 2 bikes, full water and fuel tanks. For sure steady speed on flat terrain weight doesn't make much difference and it's mostly aero, but accelerating and hilly terrain weight plays a significant factor. If I pull a 7500lb travel trailer with the same frontal area as my 13Klb trailer and their will be a significant difference in mpg.
I was 99.9% sure this was going to be the response. Both my current '16 Ram 2500 with the 6.7 and my old '04 with the 5.9 couldn't tell a different in weights. Like I said, I'm sure if I put 40k extra pounds in it there would be a hell of a difference, but with diesel engines in the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, the trailers carrying capacity can't haul enough for the weight to make a tangible difference.
Fuel economy is affected by the work required to overcome friction and changes in momentum/potential energy. Sources of friction are aerodynamic drag(exponentially increases with speed) and rolling resistance. A change in momentum is when accelerating or decelerating. And the potential energy change is moving up and down hills. Mass generally only plays a part during changes of speed (change in momentum), or in hills (change in potential energy). Mass plays a minor part due to change in rolling resistance due to tire deformation. So, keep at a constant reasonable speed, avoid cities and hills, reduce your aero drag, and pump those tires up!
LOL....I guess I learned that lesson (about destroying tires) more from reading a ton about it on several of the RV forums that I'm on, vs. real life experiences. I also learned that a good quality TPMS system for the trailer tires can be invaluable too. On RV camping trailers, it's not just the inconvenience of blowing a tire and having to change it on the side of the road somewhere, many, many times that blow out/tread separation can and will do thousands of dollars of damage to the underside of the trailer where many times, vital components run along the frame rails. Things like electrical lines, sewer connections/outlet valves, rubber gas lines for the propane, etc, not to mention the sections of bottom skirting and fender well cutouts that get damaged. My Toy Hauler has 6 tires, so there is a lot of "opportunity" for a tire blowout and the resulting damage, thus the TST 507 TPMS system that has been flawless for the last several years. And there is no reason it could not be added to just a normal enclosed trailer also....single axle or tandem, or even triple axle. The TST 507 has the ability to monitor up to 22 tires, so sensor could be put on a tow vehicle too if it didn't already have a factory TPMS system on it.
I’m regretting downsizing from my ‘15 2500 to a new 1500. The mileage is not any better umloaded and I haven’t towed the boat with it yet- but I know what to expect. 7-8 mpg! The 1500 sure is more comfortable in very way though. I’m guessing except trying to slow down going down a steep grade with a trailer or spinning 5k rpm trying to go up it
I had a blowout on my old bumper pull toyhauler, two axle/4 tires. passenger side rear tire. i didnt feel it or see it, and drove for about 3 miles (?) when a prius driver kept flashing me and waving his arm out the window. when i found a spot to pull over i thought he was going to yell at me, for being slow and not letting him pass (two lane mountain road) but he just told me i had a blowout for the last couple miles. thankfully it didnt damage the trailer but that rubber was piping hot when i got it off and put the spare on. i ended up getting a Tireminder TM-77 TPMS, which handles up to 18 tires. flash forward to last year i was leaving a camping trip and the TM-77 started beeping at me saying rapid air loss. pulled over found the 5/16"x2" screw in my tread. Absolutely worth the cost of the TPMS system.
this reminds me of many enjoyable conversations at Grattan about who knows what engineering topic came up… good to read you’re still the same
My first TPMS was a TireMinder brand (I forget which model) and I'm glad yours is working well for you, but my TireMinder was an absolute shit show for me. The installation was done correctly (I'm a Journeyman Electrician), I used the signal booster and this particular one converted the radio signal from the booster to a WiFi signal and my phone with their app was the monitor...via BT of course. There were so many false alarms over the couple of years that I owned it, along with TireMinder replacing several sensors for me under warranty, that I started thinking about something different. The straw that broke the proverbial camel's back was our trip out west in 2021......over 5000 miles for that trip. The false alarms started before I even got to Nashville (live in the Knoxville area) and continued the entire trip out to Williams, AZ over several days. During the trip out there, a little over 1800 miles, there were at least 35 to 40 false alarms from it....and by the way, the booster was powered up, the radio to Wifi was plugged in, and fresh batteries in all the sensors before we left home. I finally just turned everything off TPMS related and decided to just do air pressure checks on all the trailer tires before we traveled to the next spot. I kept it turned off for the entire trip home, and by then, I decided that I was going to buy a different one and once we got home, I removed all six of the sensors, disconnected the signal booster, and grabbed the radio to WiFi adapter and literally threw the entire system into the trash can in my garage. That's when I purchased the TST 507 with the color display and there has not been on false alarm on it since I bought it and installed it
