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Endurance 2024. Open discussion..

Discussion in 'WERA National Endurance Series' started by regularguy, Oct 26, 2023.

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  1. yuengling910

    yuengling910 Loose Cannon

    This post perfectly sums up my opinions as well.

    We started out racing the ULW class 2 years ago just to get some track time and have some fun. This year we moved up to try the Relay class to get some track time and have some fun.
    Our plans for next year are to put run a MW bike for the entire endurance season to get some track time and have some fun.
    I think that the way things are set up now offer a good path for people to get into endurance racing. Maybe some of you more experienced endurance teams have forgotten how much goes into this logistically when you’re just starting out and don’t know what the hell you’re doing. I guess figuring that out is part of the fun.
    With that being said, can someone point me in the right direction of a semi quick fill setup for a stock R6 tank?
     
    yuengling910, Oct 31, 2023
    #41
    William Schneider likes this.
  2. tawzx12r

    tawzx12r Influencer to none

    tawzx12r, Oct 31, 2023
    #42
  3. No Brakes

    No Brakes Well-Known Member

    It's a long shot, but maybe align the purse payouts with the entry fees rec'd by class. This way ULW doesn't continue to subsidize the HW class.
     
    No Brakes, Oct 31, 2023
    #43
  4. regularguy

    regularguy Always Krispy

    ULW grids had a substantial participation increase in 2023. Maybe they can squeeze in a 3 hr for the class.
     
    regularguy, Oct 31, 2023
    #44
  5. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Yep, something along those lines is the plan.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #45
    t11ravis and R/T Performance like this.
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    790 isn't legal either. The Suzuki might only make 77hp according to them but until we see one in the real world and see how it does I'm not willing to guess it'll be slow.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #46
  7. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I guess it is a bit much to get people to read the rules (although you all did read the part about allowing gensets).... :Poke:

    d) You may not service, fuel, adjust or repair an endurance machine during a red flag. All work must cease on any machine in the pits at the time of the red flag. Any team who does not comply with this may be fined no less than $50 and may be docked laps depending on the severity of the infraction. Machines on the track at the time of the red flag will proceed onto pit lane and park directly across from their pit. You may put a cover over the bike, you may put tire warmers on the bike plugged into a portable generator on the same side of pit lane as the bike. You must remove the generator and warmers and any cordage when 1st call for the restart is given. If you have not cleared everything from pit lane by the time the 5 board is up for the restart you may be penalized.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #47
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Yep, going to add it as a strongly suggested item in all classes at a minimum with an eye towards requiring it in 2024 - may have to give some leeway in sprints for the new riders but that kind of thing is always a consideration/issue.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #48
    SWest122 likes this.
  9. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Right now no changes planned - as I was saying about the Suzuki, until they're out there and I see how they do I'm not willing to change everything else to accommodate the new bikes. Pretty much every time I've done that it has bit me in the ass.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #49
    The B Team likes this.
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Definite thoughts, not so sure how realistic they are yet. Working on more info on costs and dates and such - and one thing to keep in mind is we'd have to schedule it near the MA race or VMD since the track doesn't have enough airfence on site so we'd have to rely on the kindness of others for it.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #50
    JJJerry and JBall like this.
  11. regularguy

    regularguy Always Krispy

    CU/M4 has been playing with the GSX8S and they are developing some parts for it. They would be a good source of info.
     
    regularguy, Oct 31, 2023
    #51
  12. aod99

    aod99 Administrator

    I'm not 100% on this but I think the purse is largely supplied by Dunlop, not race entries.

    It was really magnanimous of them to do it that way (instead of contingency money) because you can still win prize money running other brands of tire.

    https://www.prweb.com/releases/dunl...1-n2-national-endurance-series-834603489.html

    On Relay*

    Imagine if in Motoamerica you were allowed to enter Stock 1000s in Next Generation Supersport race, but the 1000s were disqualified at the end of the race. But you let them out there to see if they would like to maybe race Next Generation Supersport in the future. Because, for some reason, they can't make that determination without that experience. You'd have some faster bikes running around in the race, but they are not actually in the race, they are in a sub-race. A sub-race that has huge rules advantages over the main race, but then they all get disqualified. This is just talking smack on the WERA BBS but that is why we make fun of Relay*. It is open practice for some sprint bikes that get disqualified which kinda shows that they aren't in the race, they are just out there, riding around, for some reason. We don't really care that they are out there except that it is an affront to the racing aesthetic of meritocracy. The Relay* teams get such a massive rules advantage that the only thing that keeps them from dominating the overall race (before being disqualified) is because no one is really trying hard in that class. But then it seems strange to have a rules structure which is dependent on "but no one will try hard in that class because we don't post a purse for it so its okay")

    Actually, on that topic, I would have thought that all the Relay* teams wouldn't even be listed in the overall points as they don't score in the overall. Do they get some weird gray area where they get overall mileage points but not overall points or something?

    http://wera.com/points/endurance/?x=1098&rg=71672920581&c=oa



    *the abomination
     
    aod99, Oct 31, 2023
    #52
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Not sure why you keep harping on this as I have repeatedly told you that isn't remotely what I think. I know for a fact back in the day they did - because at the time we had a lock on being able to get on track and the tons of riders who didn't really want to race had no other choice. There are some pretty big positives to being the only game in town. The current setup I personally like, I myself probably never would have raced even if I could have afforded it if there were trackdays like there are now. I don't have that same drive/desire it takes to be a competitive racer but pushing a bike faster than street speeds would have been fun. I know a lot of people I got into this with who felt the same way. There are tons who still do - and that's why there will never be a linear progression for most from track day rider to racer. And there is nothing wrong with that.

    The on track side of things has changed, overall for the better as there are more people on track every week than ever before and that is always going to help racing be it pro or amateur. Yeah our bottom line is lower compared to the mid 90's and track rental and other expenses have gone WAY WAY up due to being able to rent every weekend, but businesses change and you adapt to those changes. I think having smaller grids actually allows us to offer a better product to our customers compared to circulating for 8 laps with 80 bikes on track.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #53
    rub35 and R/T Performance like this.
  14. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Find me extra time in the day that is allowed by the track(s) and doesn't cost us 25% or more in increased expenses for overtime :D
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #54
  15. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I will but nothing beats seeing a bike on track with a known rider. All the numbers help but never truly show what a bike can or can't do.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #55
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    It's due to how the scoring program is written (results are input as OA position and number of laps, then it use that to sort class finish and mileage points). I could make them their own event and such (same for ULW) but it's just simpler for me to do some manual adjustment of OA finish positions to output everything in the proper order. It doesn't affect some teams who only run a round or two but they're never really in the OA running so I haven't worried about it too much.
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #56
  17. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    And seriously - thank you all for the discussion and keeping it as civil as the paddock ever is :D
     
    Mongo, Oct 31, 2023
    #57
    The B Team likes this.
  18. regularguy

    regularguy Always Krispy

    I'm not a fan of the relay class but I do feel it has its place. When you get a fast team out there running an R7 rear with 5 gallons of fuel it does tend to throw things off while your team is out there on a R8 with 10.5 gallons of quality 93 pump...
    Relay teams:
    Offer an opportunity for those to try the atmosphere of endurance racing.
    Fill grid spots and generate revenue.
    Scare the crap out of me on the hot pit as they create more moving parts in a very dynamic environment.

    Personally, instead of payouts, I think relay teams should be awarded coupons for a non-relay entry into an endurance race good for the current and following season, or maybe coupons for fast frank stuff, dry break stuff, etc. Give them incentive to move onto a true endurance effort.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
    regularguy, Oct 31, 2023
    #58
    William Schneider likes this.
  19. regularguy

    regularguy Always Krispy

    send the bill to Buras..
     
    regularguy, Oct 31, 2023
    #59
    JJJerry likes this.
  20. aod99

    aod99 Administrator

    Tire Warmers....

    Yeah, I guess we should have read the rule book. :)

    Can we get a six minute board where we strip the warmers?

    It's really tough for us to hear calls because of our generator. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2023
    aod99, Oct 31, 2023
    #60
    SundaySocial, Monsterdood and Waterboy like this.
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