How big of a difference do tire warmers really make?

We will see how the team stack up in a couple weeks at the GNF. Thus far the bikes aren't even making 45hp yet. When / if the we decided that warmers MIGHT add to a competitive advantage or their starts are being held back by "Cold Tires" we will reevaluate.

Hell, even back in the day I didn't use tire warmers.

 

Can you clarify what experience your are basing your opinion off of? At the moment, it sounds like you are talking about kids racing on minis. I'm sure you can understand how such experience barely applies the majority of people reading this thread - adults on 400-1000cc bikes on modern 17" tires at full-size tracks.

 

Following up on my cold tire crash experience, a good hot front tire talks to me and tells me when it’s near or at the limit, a colder front (slick) just yells “SURPRISE!” and drops you to the ground before you realize what happened

I remember tucking the front on braking into Big Willow turn 3 on a chilly practice morning and thinking what the hell just happened, I wasn’t even pushing it.

 

If tire warmers and generators were free and came with a person to put them on and take them off, I'm betting the guys not using them definitely would use them.

I hear the whole "just racing for fun" thing, but I don't know if there's anything more fun you can do in a race than winning it.

 

irrespective of brand? are you on the higher side of the tire pressure spectrum... like upper 30s low 40s?

 

Personally i wouldnt use them.
ive used them once or twice and didnt see a noticeable difference on my 1st lap so maybe im just to slow.
The Heat people get who dont believe Warmers are a have to have to ride on a track is truly amazing.
Its down right hate because we dont agree with a person who thinks warmers are there ticket for them.
Maybe someone can pull up the Road Racing World article from Oak hill in the 90s on the test they did there on tire warmers?
This is a personal preference and always has been.
But no one besides me has actually tested cold tire air pressure or hot pressure with out warmers.
So when asked i try and help and as everyone has seen i get attacked all because someone doesn't agree with what i do for me.
Yet ive never hit anyone or crashed into anyone nor have i held up a race due to me crashing in 1st few laps.
except that high side back in 97 at oak hill.
You can through all the info you like but if a person wants to believe a certain way then thats on them and move on.
All i know is i haven't hurt my chances of winning by not using warmers.
m
My video's are on YouTube for anyone to watch. They are under my name and under 2nd sucks racing.
Facebook erased a whole bunch of video's i had also.
My point is im not tooling around on 1st lap and running the leaders down at end.
I had one where i was 3rd going into turn 1 at Tally and was blue flagged for jumping the start from last row.
I should ask Sean for the copy i sent him. LOL
Be safe everyone and lighten up.

Steven

 

Well I’m not new to WERA by any means. My program back in the day was ran with more money than brains. Made a crap load of mistakes, threw down quite a few bikes (not because of cold tires), and pissed off Sean plenty of times.

So now I’d like to think of myself a bit more wise. I’m very blessed to of passed the sport on to my kids. They are on Ninja 400’s. Thus far have surprised the hell out of me but the GNF should be a better barometer of where they truly stack up.

I’ve seen and heard plenty of generator powering up tire warmers in various racing orgs. Never used them. If I tell you how long we get our tires to last because we don’t unnecessarily heat cycle them, then you would understand.

Winning is fun but not the most important goal to us. Being safe, finishing races, continues improvement are or main goals. Oh, and memories made, because no kid will remember playing Xbox with dad. But the track adventures will be forever!

 

Tell us then so we can understand your POV, and provide their lap times.

It really sounds like you still have a ton to learn about the technical side of racing. Your resistance to share details is telling.

 

Yes, I understand that those who aren’t exactly like you and don’t think the exact same way are absolutely wrong.

It’s ok for you to do you and we will be us.

 

If you are having fun then im all for it.
Enjoy and be safe. anything i can do to help dont hesitate to hit me up

Steven

 

In a general sense, all things being equal. I’ve always had some warning at the limit with warm to hot tires, and have gotten no warning a few times with cold tires.

 

The only issue I have with your approach is your insistence on spreading bad information. It's nice when new or less experienced riders don't have to weed through bullshit to find helpful information. And so far you've presented nothing that wasn't either wrong - which I addressed- or I didn't already know.

 

Agreed with a lot of comments posted, so far, on page 1. Quoting them here for reference.

 

Wait, what?

I’ve validated that tire warmers are absolutely a great tool if utilized properly. Especially for those that are riding at a very high level and winning every race is the expectation.

That’s not us. Our only expectation is to FINISH races and have fun. Club level is most likely our ceiling unless they have a huge break through and their lap times are comparable with top ten MotoAmerica. (Which I doubt)

No misinformation was communicated. Please check yourself.

If our stance is “Bullshit” to you then so be. Could care less.

Thank you.

 

Tire warmers definitely have value, or all the top teams wouldn't be using them. For all the reasons already stated about tire life, consistency, safety, etc.

Not minimizing any of those reasons, but like @Peter Hively many of us have a process that involves systematically removing doubts that will hold you back out on track. Wondering what the tire pressure / temperature is can be a big one.

Also, since nobody is quoting lap times, it's kind of hard to tell how fast their definition of fast is. In MotoA we only get a few sessions per weekend- every session you have to get busy pushing, or not only will you be left behind, you might not even make the damn grid when some little punk breaks the record. When I roll out for qualifying, I'm going to be within a second of my PB at that track in the first few laps. Even with warmers and pressures set correctly there's a lap where the tires are still "coming in"

If you can afford warmers, why would you not have them? I can't think of anything besides the tires themselves that increase safety margin more?

 

Lol. There are alot of people at track days that talk alot about stuff. I remember people that had convinced themselves that they were "flexing the frame" on the first gen GSXR's on street tires because top racers were having a bit of an issue with flex on slicks at pro level pace. If you are running DOT's at track days I would not get too stressed about warmers. I run Michelin DOT's and have found that the new tires heat up faster, are not as affected by heat cycles and stick better cold than they used to. I also take a lap to get my mind back up to speed and let the hairballs that are trying to win the track day on the first lap either get far enough ahead or crash themselves out without involving me. So usually a reasonably good warm up pace the first lap and then I try to go fast. For racing I would run warmers though. If nothing else they give a bit of peace of mind.

 

Interesting video. Would anyone like to debate / argue if there is a big difference based on the tire warmer temp / performance in this video?

 

You’ve stated repeatedly that tire warmers cause unnecessary heat cycles. You continue to try to undermine the use of warmers for anyone who isn’t winning or in MA. That’s plenty of bullshit that I hope others know to ignore.

 

As I think you slinging Tire Warmers on track day guys is absurd.

I never seen a track day org telling any track rider to get their PR on the first lap.

All the track days I’ve been to across the nation tell you to ramp up slowly. No trophies are going to be won.

See, why would I burden myself with warmers on a track day when I’m taking at least the first two laps to ramp up?

Again, it’s my opinion tire warmers at club level on DOT tires at club level is unnecessary. Especially with the long wait between pit out and the actual start of the race. Yes, unnecessary heat cycles. Especially with novice racers who know they aren’t the next Pedro Acosta.

You are butthurt because I’m not exactly like you and have a difference of opinion.

At the end of the day who cares?