400 vs 600 discussion...again

This is definitely true and I've been guilty of focusing on the track aesthetic vs. lap times and outright speed. The fastest guys I know don't really drag, or do rarely.

Bicycle racing has seen a similar evolution, especially with criteriums. Racing of any kind really hurts the ego. In a bike race, if you get lapped they'll often pull you from the race. Guys don't like gridding up, getting walloped and then not even being allowed to finish the event. It puts their weaknesses on display.

 

That’s funny because I started on a 89 FZR600 in 1990. No track days or tire warmers back then. I got down to 35s at Willow Springs and ran a AMA national my second season, but I wasn’t really ready for it. David Sadowskis’ brother worked at the local Yamaha shop in Huntington Beach and said I should try it, since I was wining some local races.

Well, Jeff Farmer fast privateer, and the V&H riders Thomas Stevens and his teammate podiumed as I recall, and were doing 30s. So I was a HUGE 5 seconds off winning pace.

My son has the Willow Springs track record on a SV 650 at 1:27.19. This shows you how fast a SV is on the same basic track.

I believe a SBK SV650 making 80 RWHP is more HP than my 600 put to the ground and that was plenty fast for me on Dunlop 591’s.

I keep dreaming about gettin out there again, either a SV or a 400 Ninja seem like great starting points. My last time on a big track was in 91-92, I can’t remember.

 

OP, not trying to hijack your post, if you want me to scram just shoot me a PM and I'll start a separate thread.


I have done some days with STT since I've been in Wisconsin, and I'm really enjoy riding with them, and I really enjoy their coaches. They have helped me tremendously. So let's be clear that I am my biggest hurdle to getting faster. I did the race school with them as well before I had my first race.

But the majority of my trackdays were in TX and I've ridden with multiple orgs as my schedule allowed. RideSmart, Trackday Winner, a couple others as well.

I guess when I really think about it, what I really want/need is a dedicated school like YCRS.

 

I'll PM you, but the local STT staff are more than capable of getting you to be competitive in the amateur Midwest grid. If you ping them ahead of a track day, they'll work with you pretty much all day.

 

I really enjoyed my first race weekend and plan to do more, just impatient to be better I guess.

I saw steady improvement my first race weekend. Some vets took me under their wing and led me through the day. My laptimes made big leaps from practice to practice, and especially race to race. I just need to pony up for a school too.

 

STT shouldnt be an issue with coaching... The weiner provider meh.

 

That's fine, but my inference is that a smaller/slower bike *is* the in-between step you're looking for.

 

Another possible "in between" stop if folks are not comfortable gridding up for WERA or similar orgs is something like MotoGladiator which has a couple of races a day scheduled into a track day (Intermediate and Advanced group riders only). It will allow you to get your feet wet in a bit smaller pool.

With that said, if you are in the faster half of Intermediate, don't be afraid to grid up with a full on Race org, but avoid the 600 classes if possible.

 

Why? First year with WERA I was in Intermediate group and did just fine as a WERA Novice.

Granted... I skipped several track day weekends because I was racing WERA. The following track day, I wondered if I went out in Novice group instead of Intermediate...CR said it was time for Advanced group. Accelerated the learning curve without a doubt.

 

The org I did the race wknd with had a rookies cup and that is where I belong based on current skill level.

Plan is to do as many rookie cup races as possible next year and keep doing trackdays to try and make it to the A group.

I also got a lot of good info here about schools last year and plan on taking one this year, and trying to schedule some 1 on 1 instruction as well.

 

I don't get the aversion to the 600 class. I really doubt it's *that* much worse than any other class out there when it comes to incidents.

Ok, cool. Might have misread the tone/context. My .02$ - keep doing what you're doing. Go racing, do trackdays in between, and if you can swing YCRS (I haven't, but really want to) then great.

 

To the OP, I race an RC390 and love it. I love racing the little bikes because it keeps costs down and still tons of fun. Only time I feel like I’m lacking power is at track days with 600’s and 1000’s but if you’re racing it then it’s no big deal.

 

That's what I got from multiple racers last year so I did.

They basically said "hey stupid, you can hold a line, not get spooked when someone buzzes you, and you run competent lines, go race. The fast guys will pass you no problem".

They were right. And I still plan on taking a school this year and some 1 on 1 training.

 

I wasn't suggesting there's more incidents, but having raced everything from E to C classes I know the learning curve and expense levels are drastically different.

 

Yeah, I was more referring to 2Blue saying to avoid it at all costs. I understand the learning element to a smaller bike. Was going to comment on that, but my experience is somewhat limited, so not sure it's super relevant. I've always been on a 600 (on track, first bike was a Ninja 500) and have loved every minute of it.

 

I said avoid it if possible, not at all costs. Fields can be a bit bigger / more crowded on a 600. When you get lapped in the lightweight races, they are probably coming by one or two at a time. In the 600 field, the odds of getting lapped by a pack of bikes is higher and potentially a bit scarier. Also as noted there is the learning curve thing.

 

Half of this sounds like you were riding with the wrong organization.

The other half sounds like you took some rules way too far and let it ruin your trackdays. A rider absolutely can work on skill or learn while occasionally blocked by other riders. All it takes is a few clear corners to try a little more entry speed, hold the brake a little longer, etc etc. Worst case scenario, you "waste" 3min of a session by coming into the pits to find room elsewhere on the track. And what were you trying to "work on in a meaningful way"? It seems that you place a lot of importance on passing and riding close, which are parts of being a good racer. But going fast is far more important.

All that is probably why you likely need professional instruction. Your frustrations probably aren't caused by not knowing how to go fast - its more that you don't know how to get faster.

 

^^^ That last sentence makes me think on riders who buy bigger HP bikes so they can pass people. No fun or progression in that. Learning to 'go faster' applies anywhere on the track, under acceleration or under braking. A little longer on the gas or a little later on the brakes (or maybe off the brakes a little sooner). That's my 2 cents.