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How about a fresh thread for Kramers?

Discussion in 'General' started by xxaarraa, Nov 9, 2019.

  1. DmanSlam

    DmanSlam Well-Known Member

    Just "found" this thread. These bikes are really nice and ridiculously lightweight. The 2019/2020 models advertise a wider power band. Do any current Kramer owners find that advantageous? Similiar to a 4-stroke dirt bike where you can lug most any gear (not that you will be lugging, but doing less shifting)?

    I'm guessing the powerband curve follows the tradition of the engine type: lower in the rpms for the 890 twin and higher in the rpms for the evo2 LC4.
     
  2. xxaarraa

    xxaarraa Well-Known Member

    I am not sure what internals, but externally, they are the same as a Duke 1290 / RC8 (WP).

    Mine is the open cartridge 'S' model. 'R' models from 2019+ come with WP supersport closed cartridge beauties. However, I have ridden an 'R' model bike and they are VERY firm, I prefer my 'S' model forks.

    Rear shock is same for both models.
     
  3. tl1098

    tl1098 Well-Known Member

    My 2019 r came with a muffler,undermount ,not akra passes sound check easily
     
  4. xxaarraa

    xxaarraa Well-Known Member

    Can you post a pic? I'm curious.
     
  5. tgold

    tgold Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. Seems like that's a pretty beefy for such a light bike. I'm building a lightweight (280-290lb) frankenbike and more than power I prefer having good front end feel, so I'm hesitant about putting a fork like that on it as it seems like the stiffness would be too high. So with that in mind, how is the feel of the front end?
     
  6. Jb.junior

    Jb.junior Well-Known Member

    How is the shock on these things? I was pretty disappointed to learn that they are just re-worked "bucket parts" RC8 shocks. For this price, I was expecting one of the top of the line WP Apex Pro 7746 units. I think that they've made some improvements with the 2020 model, but it's still structurally an old RC8.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  7. Jb.junior

    Jb.junior Well-Known Member

    I'm also considering racing one of these next season. One of the main drawbacks, at least in CMRA, is that, because it is not a mass-produced, initially-meant-for-street bike, it is only eligible to race in a few classes. In CMRA, it can run in the Formula 2 and Lightweight Twins classes (or derivations of them; Formula 40 Lightweight; Solo 30 Lightweight; etc.). And I suppose Heavyweight Twins, if you're really feeling frisky. If you were to run an SV 650, MT07, or an Aprilia RS 660 (if they ever start production...), they are also able to run in the D Superbike and D Superstock classes (superstock of course depending on what level of modifications that you've made). I specifically checked with our race director on this.

    Same would be true with the GP2 -- it would be subject to the same restrictions (i.e., it would not be able to be raced in the B Superstock or B Superbike classses; only Formula 1 and Heavyweight Twins).

    I've also been in contact with Kramer distributors, and my understanding is that they'll offer autoblippers as part of the standard package 2021/2022. But you they can set it up for you on your current bike for a fee. Not sure if it's just an ECU reprogram, or if there is also a piece of hardware included.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  8. Jb.junior

    Jb.junior Well-Known Member

    The initial Kramers, both R and S, came with 5" rear wheel, which fit a 160. Then the R started having a 5.5" wheel. They actually don't even offer the S anymore -- all are R. It now comes with a 5.5" wheel. I'd actually prefer a 5" with a 160, so I guess getting a new one I could either make a deal with Kramer (old sets of wheels and spacers for the new ones) or sell the news ones and get some 5"s. If you could with the 5.5", as noted in this thread, wheel options become limited. The 5" has a lot more options. If you want to get a second set of the Dynamag wheels, complete with rotors and hardware, it's almost 4K. Ouch. Not sure if anyone has done any analysis on the weight of the Dynamag versus previous "S" wheels (read: KTM 1290 front / 690 rear), but it better be a huge savings to justify that price.

    CMRA does not allow carbon fiber wheels. Which I think is silly. I assume that everyone one else here is in a league that allows them? Otherwise, the carbons are without a doubt the way to go.
     
  9. Kurlon

    Kurlon Well-Known Member

    So, interesting data point on wide rims and small bikes: Sumo racers in Europe are running 5.5" rims on 230lb 60hp machines.
     
  10. cota.kitty

    cota.kitty Member

    For those interested more in Kramers, on Monday (June 15th @ 5pm PDT) I'm doing a live chat on YouTube with Joe from Kramer Motorcycles USA.

     
    Jb.junior likes this.
  11. tl1098

    tl1098 Well-Known Member

    thanks for the heads up ,will be listening
     
  12. Senna

    Senna Well-Known Member

    What were your final results of the Kramer race fuel testing?
     
  13. RndHoleSqPeg

    RndHoleSqPeg Well-Known Member

    So Jensen, since you are one of the few we could trust with a comparison. Which is a better track day/race lightweight bike; the Kramer or the RS 660 with 5k in upgrades thrown at it?
     
  14. xxaarraa

    xxaarraa Well-Known Member

    Is that even a serious question? Kramer is 270 lbs wet and makes 80 hp. RS660 is 400 wet and makes 100 hp. Sure, Aprilia makes a good bike, but the RS660 is nothing more than an ancient RSV4 design, chassis and electronics recycled with half a motor.
     
  15. Jb.junior

    Jb.junior Well-Known Member

    Not sure if it’s that simple.

    With standard track/race bike weight reduction removals and add ons, the Ape will likely get down to 350-360 lbs. And with a full exhaust, filter, and simple flash (not even a sophisticated remapping or dyno), horsepower could probably get up to 104-108. which pretty much levels out the power to weight ratio between the two.

    A lot of Moto America teams in the twins cup are switching over to this platform. I think it’s going to be the hottest thing on the track in the next two seasons. I predict it will effectively be an Aprilia RS 660 spec race. Would be great if they had a super mono class for the Kramer and / or let it run in the Twins Cup. I’m sure it would be very competitive. (I’m currently on an Fz07 but I’m thinking of changing over to the Aprilia myself for club racing. Seriously Considered the Kramer, but ultimately decided not to because of his class limitations in club racing.)

    “Recycled,” or not, The electronics package on the Aprilia is far superior to the nonexistent one on the Kramer. But then again, the Kramer being that light it wouldn’t benefit nearly as much from the electronics.

    If the RS 660s anything like that RSV4 geometrically, they will probably be pretty damn well structured for spirited track riding and racing. (I.e, hopefully will not require linkage, front end, modifications like one needs to do an FZ07 / Sv650). If you’re just a track day guy, I bet you can get one track ready for less than 5K. I think you can get by on bodywork, clip ons, rear sets, pads, and suspension rework / replacement.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  16. xxaarraa

    xxaarraa Well-Known Member

    Really? You can lighten a street bike by 50 lbs? If you can do that, you should get into the bike prep business immediately.

    You seem to have a lot of thoughts about two bikes you have never ridden. I know lots of guys like you who are great at the Internet.

    Weren’t you supposedly shopping for a Kramer over a year ago? Still researching instead of riding?
     
    Philip Mirgliotta likes this.
  17. Jb.junior

    Jb.junior Well-Known Member

    I tried to allow you enough time for you reabsorb your Carelessly constructed message and answer your own questions. All the information needed was either in my original post or a few keystrokes on Google. But I’ll go ahead and illustrate here for the exercise of the audience.

    Yamaha FZ07 wet Weight is about 400 pounds.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_MT-07

    People are easily getting them to 330-340. Just ask any Moto America team. Flip through the classified ad selling them here and you’ll see. So I’m pretty spot on.

    What I’m doing, and what bike I’m on are, as stated, answerable self evidently via my original post. Why do you assume I have not ridden a Kramer? And the Aprilia?

    But I hear you, I’m not a big fan of Internet fronting myself. Aren’t you a member at ECR if I remember correctly? I’m up there for guest days often and was actually considering a membership. This is my real picture and profile. I’m pretty easy to find. Bright orange FZ07. Gray Kia stinger. Beaty eyes, pointy nose, cauliflower ear. I’ll also be at all the CMRA races next year. More than happy to make myself available face-to-face at your convenience.
     
  18. notbostrom

    notbostrom DaveK broke the interwebs

    So how many laps have you done on the Aprilia to draw this conclusion?
     
  19. Robby-Bobby

    Robby-Bobby Steeltoe’s Daddy

    what an ignorant thing to say about a bike nobody here has ridden.
     
  20. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    I have not seen it other than pictures but would take it over Kramer any time. :)
     

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