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How to feel more comfortable hard braking

Discussion in 'Tech' started by Schwiz, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. Phanuel

    Phanuel Well-Known Member

    I have to counter the weight I'm putting on the inside bar that I can't support on my inside leg. Am I missing something fundamental here? I'm unable to comfortably accelerate or feel safe with a good amount of lean at the moment because of this.

    I'd be more surprised if everyone but me is able to actually take their hands off the bars mid corner without being rather fit and having half a cheek off the seat to the inside. People are cheating somehow, and I'd like to know how.
     
  2. lopitt85

    lopitt85 Well-Known Member

    What helped me was putting my bike on stands in the garage and practicing mid corner body position and doing the arm arm flap chicken dance. Then at the track I practiced doing the same thing. What I found initially is I was doing what you describe because gripping the bars and supporting my weight with my arms was my safety blanket/safe space. I had to force myself out of it by flapping my arms and practically letting go of the bars the corner my grip was so light. It showed me just how much weight should be on my core and legs and that I could do it. Then I kept practicing that as I got faster. I'm definatley a novice myself but that's what worked for me. I'm mid pack intermediate with 2 different organizations and I'm also looking to improve my trail braking. I'm confident in my understanding and in practice at my pace, but I want to be able to be more aggressive/effective with it as I try to move to advanced group and eventually try racing.
     
  3. lopitt85

    lopitt85 Well-Known Member

    If I'm mid corner and need to tighten up the turn I use counter steering some, but mostly I just adjust my upper body now. Because so many preached to me that once you tip in you dont want to move your body or you'll risk upsetting the chassis, I used to only countersteer, which we know adds lean angle, but eventually you'll run out. So I started watching more videos, and reading more, at looking at the guys at the top of the sport. When they wanted to tighten up mid corner they were adjusting their upper body...smoooootthly. They would drop that inside elbow, drop their upper body more, even lean off to the inside more, but their lower body stayed planted and the chassis wasnt upset. So I started trying it and man, what a game changer!

    I also noticed exactly what you said, pushing the outside bar to stand the bike up takes very little effort. I started trying something else from Simon Crafar's motovudu YouTube series. He called it stealing a few meters IIRC. On corner exit really exaggerating your hang off and more like pushing the bike up so you can get on the gas earlier and harder. Also very effective.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  4. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    I disagree. How much weight are you talking about...full-on push-up weight or residual leftover from whatever method you propose to use for staying in the saddle?
     
  5. JCW

    JCW Well-Known Member

    I see the professional guys jam their inside knee into the side of the tank before tipping in. I've been trying that and like the feel.
    There's a couple videos of Troy Corser saying you sit pretty much right up against the tank (to one side) and let your upper inner thigh hold you up. I never completely felt comfortable sitting that close personally.
    If you are squeezing the tank with your legs, I tend to find you aren't in proper position for the corner and end up sitting too much on top of the bike or are moving when you don;t need to be.

    Bottom line is you need to find what works best for you and your bike at your riding level.

    Once in the corner, I like to experiment with where the pressure is. explore the points of contact with the bike as Code describes it. Inner peg weighting limits my comfort at high lean angles. outer leg pressure alone tends to make me sit on top of the bike. I vary between sitting with my weight on the seat and outside leg and slight pressure on the inner bar to hold a tight line. That seems to work for me at my slow ass pace.
     
  6. khill

    khill Well-Known Member

    Depends on how hard you are braking and for how long....but at the sharp end, it's close to full on push-up weight......

    Ken
     
    Ra.Ge. Raptor, TurboBlew and lookmtb like this.
  7. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Seems to me that introduces risks for erroneous steering inputs due to also downshifting, braking and throttle manipulation.

    Additionally, there's the potential for upsetting the back half of the chassis as the transferred weight of the rider is higher and more centered over the pivot point in the chassis instead of that weight being able to better act as a damping force farther and lower from said pivot.
    Your method levers the rear off the ground more readily and requires exaggerated body language to address directional instability as the bike is less connected to tarmac.

    Doesn't seem worth the risk or effort.
     
  8. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    there was someone at the vendor isle at COTA that had a cool...well 2 motorcycle resistance exercisers. Used those resistance rubber bands or weights. An interactive way to watch a GP...lol
     
  9. khill

    khill Well-Known Member

    You’re forgetting motor controls....please continue your method if it works for you.

    Ken
     
  10. JCW

    JCW Well-Known Member

    where you brace doesnt change your cog and weight transfer unless you actually move your mass on the bike.
    hard to believe, but true.

    the way i interpret what Mr Hill is saying doesnt preclude bracing yourself with the lower body, just that the harder and later you brake, you only can offload with the lower body so much before you necessarily bear more with your arns.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
  11. lopitt85

    lopitt85 Well-Known Member

    That's what I take from it too. Even the guys at the top are using their arms for lots of support. You can see it clear as day when you watching them haul down from 200+ mph to make their turns. You can only brace so much with core and legs before you have to use arms, otherwise they would be face planting into or over the handlebars as they try to slow down.
     
  12. khill

    khill Well-Known Member

    Hard to leg dangle or stick your knee out when you don’t use your arms/hands....
     
  13. JCW

    JCW Well-Known Member

    for the OP, have you ever tried to approach a corner and identify the slowest point you want and brake to that point.
    it sounds idiotically simple, but helped me really focus on braking deeper. Very effective, in a car at least. still working on it on the bike.
    it kills your corner speed and possibly your exit a bit, but as KH says, rarely will a high corner speed win u races or get you around a track a whole bunch faster.
     
    khill likes this.
  14. khill

    khill Well-Known Member

    Applied correctly for either an exit or entry corner, it’s faster in and most importantly, faster out.
     
    MurfSVR likes this.
  15. lookmtb

    lookmtb Active Member

    Yeah, I think there's some weight on those hands...
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Phanuel

    Phanuel Well-Known Member

    And a bunch of tank grip material.
     
  17. lookmtb

    lookmtb Active Member

    Half of it isn't even being used :moon:
     
  18. Gravisman

    Gravisman Well-Known Member

    I believe what you’re describing is called a “hook turn” and it’s a great way to alter turning radius mid-turn without changing lean angle. I have to consciously remind myself to do it in the corners where it’s helpful, but totally a great technique.
     
  19. Steve H

    Steve H Well-Known Member

    The things you are talking about here are all good. But there are some basics which newer riders need to have sorted out first.

    The first and most important thing in braking - and cornering - is being able to sense when tires are right on the limit of their traction.

    I can’t describe exactly how - but you can somehow feel tires are about to slide or to lock up just before it happens.

    Dunlop Q4 tires are good for the feedback they provide and having them could help when working on this...

    Also brakes which have the most stopping power may not have good “feel” for trail braking deep into corners.

    Etc....

    (Sorry if I missed something, but I quickly read through the thread without seeing any mention of this...)
     
  20. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    one thing I did this past weekend at Sonoma after Race 1... I moved my master cylinder away from the grip on the bar. This increased my leverage and made it easier to pull the lever. I was only able to move it over 5mm, but it definitely decreased my braking effort some. This made me less tired at the end of the race and overall just made hard braking easier.
     
    TurboBlew, Schwiz and Dave250 like this.

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