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Superbike engine costs

Discussion in 'General' started by Scott S., Jun 4, 2019.

  1. Scott S.

    Scott S. Well-Known Member

    Looking at trap speed numbers on live timing the past few races I noticed the front of field had trap speeds up to 10-20 mph faster pretty consistently. Rider? Exit drives?
    How much more money does 10-20 mph cost?
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2019
  2. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Rider and exit drives, almost exclusively. The motors are usually more powerful (how much often depends on the class, but it's probably not as much as you'd think)... but take a mid-pack rider and have them swap bikes with Herrin, and neither trap speeds nor lap times will change more than a couple tenths.
     
    ducnut likes this.
  3. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    Sometimes the real road races paint a clearer picture in terms of outright power. Like Tophyr said the difference is not that big for the same rider between the SSTK and SBK at the IOMTT. Even taking tires out of the equation. Peter Hickman's SSTK avg speed is a whopping 1mph slower than his SBK outright record. That and superbikes are so good now the competent builders are all within tenths of each other I bet using the same bike. I don't see anyone building a "ringer" these days honestly. They are that good out of the box. Except Honda :rolleyes:
     
    tophyr, Gorilla George and ducnut like this.
  4. Shocker

    Shocker Well-Known Member

    Like everyone else has stated. Its the rider and exit drives.

    I'm sure the hours spent by the SBK teams tweaking the Magnetti Marelli ECUs allows the riders to put the power to the ground a lot more efficiently than an OEM ECU coming out of corners.
     
  5. Critter

    Critter Registered

    HP vs corner exit drive making top speed at the IOMTT, do not compare to short course racing. Thats comparing apples and oranges, yes they are both fruit but are waaaayyyy different. scenarios.
    HP and getting it to the ground off the corner is way harder in short course racing than the IOMTT.

    There are too many reasons to list why the SBK times and the SSKT times are close at the TT. This has been debated at length by many people....
     
    MELK-MAN likes this.
  6. Critter

    Critter Registered

    Trap speed on Short Course racing is a false piece of data, I had the top trap speed at Road America one year because I had great drive off the last corner, and was smaller than several guys in the field and they had factory bikes, and I was on a LEE Shierts SSTK bike. There are too many factors that go into trap speeds, it is a useless piece of data at most US tracks. Lap time is what matters NOT trap speed...
     
  7. racesbikes

    racesbikes WTB a Size 50/60 Race Suit

  8. DucatiBomber

    DucatiBomber DJ Double A

    Depending on how much you can get parts for and whose building it... $8,000-$10,000 (ish lol)

    Ride safe,
    AAron
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  9. Kris87

    Kris87 Friendly Smartass

    I can assure you a lot of it is engine.....
     
    G Dawg likes this.
  10. ScottyRock155

    ScottyRock155 A T-Rex going RAWR!

    Where do they measure at Road America? I thought the speeds seemed low and was wondering where they were measuring.
     
  11. Spitz

    Spitz Well-Known Member


    I dunno but I always felt I was going faster going to turn 5 than the front straight.
     
  12. 2blueYam

    2blueYam Track Day Addict

    Where you measure could impact different classes differently. If you put it just before most any of the top six 1000cc Superbikes hit the brakes, it will be early for the top 600SS racers, most of the Twins Cup field and all of the Jr. Cup field. It might be a little late for the back markers in the Superbike and 1000 SSTK field.

    At Road America, the wind direction also impacts top speeds on the main straight. It can be a factor at other tracks as well.

    Personal experience (track day): I was at Summit Main on a new to me stock motor SV650. I was only hitting about an indicated 122 (and occasionally it would go back down a mph or two with the throttle pinned) on the front straight with 15/44 gearing and wondered if something was wrong with the motor. We had a 15-20 mph headwind with gusts around 30. I went back a few weeks later and was hitting an indicated 128 (with taller 15/43 gearing) in a light crosswind.
     
  13. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    .. that'd be a good start :)
    A supersport legal engine for a 2018 r6, with zero miles, built for the D200 was $6500 by one of the very prominent builders here on the east coast. I saw the invoice. lots of cool parts but lots of labor stuff too. (obviously the high end, i don't know anyone that spends this much on a ss bike regularly , or ever for that matter) .

    A pretty basic 2mm overbore R6 motor. Literally stock crank, stock cams, stock valves.. just bore/replate, pistons, rods, head porting and labor, will run $9k. And i know a guy that has $20k in his R6 sb motor. (happens to be same builder as aforementioned ss motor)
     
    TurboBlew, Racer773 and Steeltoe like this.
  14. SpeedWerks Racing

    SpeedWerks Racing Well-Known Member

    I would have thought more so too,,,but,doing data with the same bike, 2 different riders, who weighed within 5lbs of each other, I had 8-12mph and a second difference constantly.
    Upon finding the data line (Entrance to exit of Oak tree VIR Full) and fixing Walters line, the mph and times were the same,,,weird.
     
    Steeltoe likes this.
  15. Critter

    Critter Registered

    I don't know where MA is doing it, but I THINK I remember the AMA doing it around the start finish line? I THINK.....
     
  16. JJJerry

    JJJerry Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
     
    r6boater likes this.
  17. Critter

    Critter Registered

    well that answer the question.........
     
  18. Fast.
    Cheap.
    Reliable.

    ...you can only have two.

    I know for a fact you can get 150+ hp to the wheel (Dynojet) out of a 2mm R6 motor, and it will run for 2 seasons without using oil. But you could buy another R6 plus a ton of spares for what the motor build costs.
     
  19. As far as how HP relates to performance, I think it depends on if we are talking about lap times, or finishing positions.

    Of course it can have an affect on lap times, when you are talking about a lot of HP. Say, comparing a 300 to a 1000. But when it comes to comparing bikes of the same cc's, I think it plays more of a part in making passes and gaining positions, than it does outright lap times.

    For the most part, apex speed is fixed because just about everyone is on the same type of bike, with about the same ground clearance, on the same tires, has similar BP, and is running good suspension. Everyone running a similar pace will be carrying roughly the same speed at apex. Whether someone can reach 175 or 185 on the straight, they will still have to get down to the same speed at apex. The guy who can reach 185 will have to start braking sooner (or harder, or carry the brakes deeper) than the guy who can only reach 175, in order to make that same apex speed.

    Id be willing to bet those two guys qualified within tenths of each other. But the difference is that the guy who can reach 185 can easily pass the guy who can only reach 175. So he can pull off a block pass.

    Sykes is a perfect example of this. His bike is lacking in top speed/HP, but he can still qualify at the very front. The HP isn't a factor in his lap time. When he is allowed to run his own lines and do his own thing, and isn't worried about passing or being passed, he can turn a lap time just as fast as anyone.

    ...but when it comes to racing and battling with people, he can't make passes because he loses too much ground on the straights. He can't get himself in a position to make block passes.

    I've raced a 600 in the 1000 classes a lot. Even though people say "lap times are lap times", there is a difference between lap times and battling with people. Even if my outright lap time was 1-2sec faster, it was aggravating as hell, and damn near impossible sometimes, to make passes.
     
    rcarson15, MELK-MAN and deathblow like this.
  20. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    how many cool parts can you put in a SS legal engine? Was it coatings?
     

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