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Another Boeing 737 Max-8 crash

Discussion in 'General' started by SPL170db, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. dieterly

    dieterly Well-Known Member

    Why? Personally I think part of the answer is in the last sentence in my last post...
     
  2. Banditracer

    Banditracer Dogs - because people suck

    This place should be in every investigating agency's speed dial. :D
     
    BigBird likes this.
  3. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    I agree. Lots more crap to look at there than in a light single. I get that.
    But apart from a major flight control issue what would cause the nose to keep pitching down? Could a power change do it? The most logical is stabilizer issue. So fly the plane and figure it out. Lion was doing that until they lost it.

    Its easy to say as a PP/IA with a few hundred hours just armchair quarterbacking this thing. But FTDP is like rule one. If something isnt working right, fix it, reset it or turn it off is like rule 17...but they should have gotten to that at some point.

    I know everyone will/is going to blame MCAS and Boeing...and from the info so far they should share some of the blame for sure. But this wasnt a United 232 situation with no pitch control. To me its more like Eastern 401...got distracted and didnt fly the damn plane.
     
  4. dieterly

    dieterly Well-Known Member

  5. BigBird

    BigBird blah

  6. G 97

    G 97 Garth

    BigBird likes this.
  7. busa99

    busa99 Well-Known Member

    Well you guys did call the girls lost at sea hoax long before the authorities and news crews figured it out. Can’t argue with results
     
    Banditracer and BigBird like this.
  8. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    I think you're confusing two situations here- a stall condition AND a runaway of the MCAS / Trim. If you were in a stall, you would apply power, unload (push the nose down or release back pressure), and fly out of it. In the course of flying out of it, you would normally use trim, because to get in that great of a nose high, low airspeed condition, the trim would have to be pretty far nose UP to begin with. So you would be nose down trimming during the stall recovery. If for some reason the trim was running away uncommanded at that point, you would run the stab trim runaway checklist. But trimming against it is the first thing, which would be pretty natural as you are hand flying at this point. (The MCAS isn't active with the autopilot engaged.)

    Look at the data traces from the Lion Air crash- Uncommanded nose down trimming starts and continues for over 6 minutes. That is an eternity. They trimmed against it right up to the end, where they let it get away from them. So the pilot flying was trimming against the MCAS for over 6 minutes continuously and never recognized a stab trim runaway situation. Seems like they didn't recognize the airspeed unreliable situation either, as they stated all instruments are faulty which is nearly impossible. Despite what must have been several indications (IAS Disagree, etc.)

    NTSB is "involved" in the Ethiopian investigation. French unlocked the data recorders and then sent them back to Ethiopia. The Ethiopian Minister of Aviation already stated his pilots are not at fault weeks ago. So I'm hoping we have some more info soon.

    Boeing has come up with a software fix that will limit the MCAS authority to a few degrees and will tie operation of the system to both AOA sensors, not just one. FAA has to approve. Then we have to get some type of training document approved by the FAA and once a certain percentage of the pilot group has seen it, we can start flying the planes again.
     
    BigBird likes this.
  9. Steak Travis

    Steak Travis Well-Known Member

    6 minutes of trim not doing what you want and never turning that thing off is crazy.

    If it wasn’t IFR, can’t you just look out the window and power and pitch it not into the ground or am I missing something? I’ve had my auto pilot make random hard left turns in The clouds and I just shut it off and hand flew until I was clear of clouds and tried to work on it then.

    Got my first class medical the other day. May look into flying again and trying to get to 1500
     
    ChemGuy likes this.
  10. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    Quit using your logics in this thread. Its Boeing's fault...try to keep up.

    Also good luck on the flying career. You have com yet? seems like guys are moing fast from com---cfi----1500hrs---regionals
     
  11. BigBird

    BigBird blah

  12. Resident Plarp

    Resident Plarp drittsekkmanufacturing.com

    If it was grounded, how did it take off?

    :D :D :D

    So, whose shares take a hit this time? GE or Prat & Whitney?
     
    badmoon692008 and BigBird like this.
  13. Steak Travis

    Steak Travis Well-Known Member

    Not yet on the Commerical. My old job I was lucky to fly a Navajo around as a perk but started a new job and still got to fly it until the plane just sold. I Just turned 30 so feels like I'm a little late but I've got the hours to get my Commerical, just need to get to testing standards and should be good to go. I'm supposedly getting a raise that I'll see on Friday and if it's not what I think it should be, I'm going to have a conversation with my current boss about my long term employment there. If they don't align, then I've got a card for a AA captain that also instructs and going to see about getting to PTS standards. My Wife is pushing me toward flying.. she knows I love it and she loves to travel.

    If I do stay at my current job, I need to get my Commerical anyway and will negotiate that...My boss was asking if I could fly a Pilatus to which I said.... I can certainly learn :)
     
    pscook and ChemGuy like this.
  14. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    Same as everyone said the Deepwater Horizon was BP's fault. When you mention Transocean people look at you like you got a boog hangin'.
     
    cpettit and crashman like this.
  15. Monsterdood

    Monsterdood Well-Known Member

    When the Swiss cheese slices all line up, then an accident happens. There was certainly a design deficiency / weakness driving up pilot workload at a minimum. And then there was a maintenance error in not fixing an issue. And then there were uninformed pilots regarding MCAS, and then they didn’t follow runaway trim procedures due to training, workload, and experience / skill. And then the qualifications to sit in the front seat and the transition training and so on.... accidents suck and the causes often seem so obvious in retrospect.
     
    Gino230 likes this.
  16. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    Bingo. It is almost always "the fault" of the deepest pockets.
     
  17. worthless

    worthless Well-Known Member

    It was on a treadmill. Mystery finally solved!
     
    pickled egg likes this.
  18. Resident Plarp

    Resident Plarp drittsekkmanufacturing.com

    9DABCA1E-29C2-45D4-AD6D-15DF32ACD900.jpeg
     
  19. speedluvn

    speedluvn Man card Issuer

    Yeah but who's accountable for the causes is the debate.
     
  20. Newsshooter

    Newsshooter Well-Known Member

    Well the latest report is that the pilots followed listed procedures yet still flew into the ground.
     

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