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Machinists, learn me a bit

Discussion in 'General' started by tophyr, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    Thats just 1 of like 200 lots Dan. They have a ton of machining stuff, lots of CNC, accessories. I have no need for it, but the have 48"x96"x14" granite surface plate....man i could build bikes and shit on that...

    Dan this near Grand Rapids, MI....only a few hours drive for you....:D
     
  2. Dan Dubeau

    Dan Dubeau Well-Known Member

    I know, I'm browsing the other lots now :). I have no where to put any more machines. Really wishing I'd bought that paint booth/crane now lol. :)

    Edit: nice and capable shop, shame they went under. The reviews on Indeed make it sound like every shop I've ever been in :). A lot of nice goodies there for the home shop guy to pick up. Shame it's so far away, Or I might have woken up with the sniffles tomorrow. Looks like a good one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  3. ChemGuy

    ChemGuy Harden The F%@# Up!

    We can solve that problem....heres a whole company full of big as machines in N IN for sale....:D

    https://www.hilcoind.com/sale/accraline/featured
     
  4. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Interesting. I saw the Jet but stayed away from it due to comments on the first page lumping it in with the Chinese stuff.

    OTOH, it is another grand above what I'd already had to talk myself into even considering. This thing'll probably see use maybe a couple times a month.. I don't think I can justify $4k for it.
     
  5. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    1 3/8 spindle bore on that Jet lathe would be no go for me.
     
  6. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Well crap, that Southbend 10" is gone.
     
  7. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    How thick is a headstock tube on a bike? I'm trying to imagine the largest diameter I can conceive of wanting to put through the bore. Aside from a headstock the biggest things I can imagine wanting to work on that might need to go through the bore are axles... but even imagining that, I can imagine ways to build semipermanent mandrels for them and then cut the mandrel off and clean it up afterward with centers.

    Similarly, is flex in the lathe (which I'm gathering is one of the main knocks against the Craftsman/Atlas) really that big of a problem? Couldn't I just build a bigger and sturdier surface to mount it to? Or is the flex more about "internal" flexibility, ie perhaps the ways flexing outward/downward under load even if the actual mounting points don't move a thousandth?
     
  8. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    Having bore is handy if you making wheel spacers but you can get around it. You just have to cut rod in pieces before machining or buy short pieces. For example I buy 1.75" in 3' length. No cutting, just stick in lathe, machine, part it and move for next.
    I can also stick fork tube in my and that helps a lot.
    If you start using it more and more you will run in to this downsides to smaller machines. Buy biggest you can afford now :)
    Small machines also flex more, less material you can take at the time, less consistent if repeating....etc.
     
  9. RIB333

    RIB333 Well-Known Member

    Small machines can do small work. Big machines can do big and small work.
    I went with what my space and budget could afford at the time. Concentrated on the tooling included because that runs into big bucks quick. Been happy with my smaller machines and I find work arounds for their limitations.
     
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  10. talber8

    talber8 Well-Known Member

    I bought a South Bend 9” a few months ago and love tinkering with it! It was built in 1947 which I think is super cool. It was in really good condition owned by one family since new.

    I’ve been enjoying teaching myself how to use it and getting comfortable. I see where a larger/stronger/more rigid lathe could be used for sure; but this is still completely fulfilling the hobby side for me. No I can’t make bearings or NASA parts.

    I also have found this weird pleasure in grinding HSS blanks for cutting, and every new thing I try I picture a different shape cutter that would be better.

    Mine has power feed but Change gears. I can definitely see where a quick-change box would come in handy especially for adjusting feed rate.

    Even this smaller size 36” bed, takes up a foot print in my basement the size of a work bench and is still several hundred pounds. Moving a 1k pound machine would be prohibitive for me at my house.

    It’s neat too they made so many of them there’s a ton of tribal knowledge out there. Not a whole lot has changed in the last 80 something years they’ve been using the design.

    I’m a fan! Great new hobby!
     
  11. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Makes sense. Hadn't thought of fork tubes.. I don't really imagine making my own though, as fun as that would be.

    Even if it came to stuff like that.. like you said, I could cut it first and then chuck those up instead of sticking it through the bore. Little more work in cleanup but same overall result, right? Thinking about it, if I have a bed long enough then I could probably still even do the fork tubes, just on a big live center. Right?

    Not looking for reasons to contradict you guys.. just trying to make sure I don't buy wayyy more lathe than I need, while still making sure I don't completely bone myself out of certain capabilities.
     
  12. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    You can turn and polish fork tube with live center.
    What you can't do is machine end of it like I do for cartridge conversions.
    There is no such thing more than you need. You can only get less than you may need. Like I said, 13/14x 40 is good size for home.
    Old machines are big as well and this newer import is more compact. My 14x40 is 6'x2' footprint, takes less room than motorcycle.
     
    tophyr likes this.
  13. Dan Dubeau

    Dan Dubeau Well-Known Member

    It's just a machine. Much like a Motorcycle, and all different types have their strengths and weaknesses and work they're best suited for. Trying to get one lathe to do it all is like trying to get one motorcycle that will suit all riding disciplines. You're not marrying it, and as long as you buy "smart" you can always sell it for more or less what you paid for it. In the $2000 range, you won't lose much if anything at all (you might make money) if you sell if for another machine, or decide machining isn't your thing. Unlike a motorcycle the potential to wad the thing up and make it %100 worthless* isn't really there.

    *you CAN end up buying an older machine in need of TLC and start tearing it down, getting in way over your head trying to rebuild it and then throw in the towel. I've seen those for sale before, and they ARE damn near worthless, and will drain your time and wallet. Looked at a backhoe shortly before Christmas like that. Guy was asking 6k, and had over 15k in it, and was just trying to get out from under it. I wished him luck. I wouldn't have taken it if he paid ME (it was fucked, but it had all new hoses though lol)
     
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  14. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Makes sense. As soon as I posted the above and then walked away, I realized that I'd have no way to work on the end/inside of it.
     
  15. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    I sell you my, needs few seals :)
    I bought older Cadilac lathe on eBay from one of those outfits that liquidate machine shops when they go out of business. Looked good on pictures and description said it was in excellent shape and everything working. Hitched trailer and took 10hr drive to LA to pick it up. Got there and thing would not run at all, had some electrical issues with switches. They said they will fix it and I can come back. I said no thanks and bought brand new one (the one I have now).
     
  16. Dan Dubeau

    Dan Dubeau Well-Known Member

    Auctions and sales like that are a gamble. I'm gambler, and have always been willing to take a chance on a used machine/tool/toy and gamble on my ability to fix, and repair it vs spending money on new. Sometimes I've been bit, but I'm pretty sure I'm beating the house. I come from a long line of stubborn men who are too poor to buy new, but just smart, and skilled enough to fix things and keep them running. I'm not sure if it's a blessing or a curse, but it's been fun so far.
     
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  17. Phl218

    Phl218 .

    here's another idea. start a job where they have a nice toolshop and make friends with the guys in there.
    not before too long the'll be saying "hey ____, doing some government work again?" :D ask me how i know ;)
     
  18. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    I'm thinking of pouncing on this one that just popped up: https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/tls/d/sammamish-south-bend-metal-lathe/6824470066.html

    Look good? It seems like these things come up a fair bit more often than I thought they would've, so if the advice is "wait (and possibly pass on this specific one) and bring someone with you who knows about stuff" then I'll take a breath and woosah.

    My main concern is that I don't know exactly how to evaluate wear on these things. I understand that things should feel solid and I'm guessing that I shouldn't feel any play in the moving parts, but I don't know much else.
     
  19. Dan Dubeau

    Dan Dubeau Well-Known Member

    I'd pass on that. I've never been particularly wowed by those smaller southbends. I'm sure they were great in 1949, but there's been better lathes made in the past 70 years that fetch less money. I get the Iceberg project feeling about that one too for some reason. At half that price it might be worth looking at, but for a $1500 southbend it better be in running condition.

    Pretty much. Things should move freely without force, but you shouldn't be able to grab the carriage and wiggle it etc. Look at the ways, particularly in front of the headstock (under the chuck). That's usually where the most wear occurs in all lathes. take a small 6" or 12" scale with you as a quick and dirty straight edge and check them for excessive gaps (wear). In an old lathe I'd expect a couple thou, but if it looks like a saddle, then run.

    If the spindle sounds gravely, or otherwise rough, run also. Bearings sing, and make noise when they're unhappy. You can bring an indicator to check runout and end play if you want, but it's up to you how far down the evaluation rabbit hole you want to go. For a benchtop lathe in the $1500 range I wouldn't really worry too much about all that stuff. It'll have some wear, you'll learn how to make good parts with it regardless....

    Paint is also a good indicator of condition. If its original paint in good condition, sounds good, and everything moves as it should, it's probably in good shape. If it's a fresh rustoleum gray, it's usually done to distract you from something else.... You'll have to make a judgement call on that. I prefer original condition over a rustoleum rebuild.

    http://www.lathes.co.uk/
    This site was linked earlier in the thread, and it's an unbelievable resource for all things lathe (and mill) related.
     
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  20. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Interesting, thanks. I think I'm gonna go check it out, but haven't decided if I'm ready to buy yet. @SpeedyE on the page prior seemed very emphatically positive about a SB 10" that's since disappeared, but was twice the price and wasn't described as being in any better condition (though that one did have the motor attached, lol).

    Great info on what to inspect, I'll definitely look hard at all those. And yeah, that lathes.co.uk site is great - I've been reading all about the Craftsman/Atlas and now Southbend stuff.
     
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