When do you know when slicks are shagged?

Hi fellas,

All the kids are potty trained so I'm allowed to go back to the track. Never ran slicks so need an education. When do you know they are shagged?

Say you buy new ones and your old, and slow?

Buying takeoffs? Wait till they tell you the traction is gone?

Trended tires have wear markers what about slicks?

Thanks fellas.

 

Slicks also have twi's if that's your concern. But you'd better start with track oriented street tires (Dunlop Q4, Michelin Power RS etc )

 

Building on the OP's inquiry, is running slicks without warmers a death wish or is it doable with an intermediate pace?

 

There's nothing to gain by it. You're spending 3 laps riding conservatively to build enough heat into them to work properly (if you're fast enough to even get there), and you're paying a higher premium for that rubber you can't even get all the potential out of it.

I've been racing on slicks for two years and considering a move back to DOT's for that very reason - I'm not convinced I am fast enough to get maximum utility out of slicks.

 

^^ someone chime in that peddles the round black hoops

but from what I have seen and expereinced, not a big difference between a race dot and a slick. Very similar construction and compounds (in some cases identical I think)

 

Not a death wish, but it will take one to three laps to get up to a decent working temperature with Race DOTs or slicks. Exactly how long or how many laps depends on the ambient temperature, wind, track temperature, track abrasiveness, track length, your pace, your bike, etc.

This from a someone that has been doing track days for about 11 years on an old 2003 R1. I do run warmers and I find the slicks last longer than the DOTs and I have plenty of pace to make them work well at advanced track day pace (lap times near but not at the back of the field in A SSTK or A SBK).

I have recently run a Q3 on my street RSV at a track day. It was fine, but I wasn't pushing as hard as I push my R1. High performance Street / Track tires have gotten very good, so if you are not running warmers, nothing wrong with giving them a try to get started. If they start to overheat or you are spinning up the rear a fair amount of the time, look at moving to a race tire.

 

See the little dots....those are your wear indicators

 

Slicks operate within a tighter temperature range than a DOT. So, it's more important to get'em hot and keep them there. Definitely nothing to be gained if you're not going fast enough to need them. DOTs will heat up easier, operate within a wider temperature margin, and they're easier to watch for wear. As the poster above noted, slicks do have the dot a a tread wear indicator.

I will also push with my thumbs on the carcass to see how thin the rubber is getting; the more it flexes, the thinner the rubber is getting. Do this by comparing a new tire to one that you know is shagged, and you should feel a difference. Takes some experience to start to figure out what it should and should not feel like, and each brand feels a little different. As an example, Pirellis have a really soft carcass, so they always seem to have a little flex doing the thumb test. This is definitely not a completely reliable method on its own; use the tread wear indicators first. But, this is helpful when comparing each side of a tire and seeing where the tire is getting worn in places where a tread wear indicator isn't present.

 

might be a good idea to keep a lap count and heat cycles and of course age. The whole fingernail durameter test...meh

Many mark the tires with yella pencil.

 

The number of heat cycles is also a consideration. You lose grip with each heat cycle, especially with slicks.

 

Just ordered warmers from TJ!

Thanks fellas! Hope I'm fast enough to keep them up to temp. Didn't know about the wear indicator.

 

the whole "u arent fast enough for slicks" might be complete bullshit these days. yes, there are plenty of trackday riders that lose temp once the warmers come off. but that doesnt mean they have less grip than a "lesser" tire. compare a street tire and a slick. we all agree that a slick has more grip at its ideal temp. we all agree that a street tire has more grip when cold. this means there must be some temp where they have the same grip, a crossover temp. I think that temp is somewhat low. I think that temp is below warmer temp. ive read and heard some information from tire manufacturers over the years that corroborates this. unfortunately there was no specific data.

of course, all this stuff depends highly on ambient conditions. even a C-group rider will be able to keep slicks warm when its 100F outside with 140F track temp. and even racers struggle to keep temp in slicks when the track is 60F.

I disagree. slicks tend to tear less in all conditions. this suggests their operating range is actually wider, not narrower. DOTs do heat up a little easier because the tread blocks can move around. but given that construction and compounds are very similar (or the same) and DOT tread blocks these days are HUGE, I doubt the tread blocks have a huge affect on warm-up time. the extra movement does mean that DOTs will run hotter for all loads, which could be beneficial for slower riders. but again, huge blocks == little movement == small differences in temp.

 

Not sure about Brand X & Y but with the long P tires the carcass and the compounds ARE different between a slick and DOT

 

So count your slick tire life with the depth of the tread wear dots (TWI) like here and count your laps/mileage. And once you finally get past the tread compound the inner carcass compound will look much different and probably put you on your arse if you keep riding

 

This isn't really true as the compound choice makes the difference. For instance the SCO (rears) has a tighter temp range because it doesn't work well when it's cold out. BUT a rear SC1 is designed to work in a wider temp range, and SC2 an even wider range. And this is true with DOTS too.

 

As someone who just threw a bike down because of un-heated slicks, I'd say they are much less efficient without sufficient heat, eg never run a slick without sufficient heat. Like, ever. DOT's you might be able to "heat up" on the track, I wouldn't try that with slicks. YMMV, my mileage was 2 turns without warmers on. Learn from my mistake, lol.

 

Each brand will have a tire that works in colder or warmer conditions and with riders of more modest pace. With P "harder" compounds work better in the cold. Other brands it may be the "softer" tire. Talk to a tire vendor if possible.

Going back to your original post: There are several reasons I do not buy take-offs. First is I don't like messing with changing wheels / tires, so I want to start with new so I don't have to do it as often. Second is you don't get a relationship with a tire vendor you can trust. Third is unless you really know the person you are buying from well, you don't really know what you are getting. If you have a quick change setup or a bike that is easy to get the wheels on /off and a tire changing machine or a bike easier on tires than my R1, you may discover take-offs are fine for you, but I wouldn't start there.

 

did your warmer fail but u still rode normally? or did u not succeed in heating up the tires properly?

 

Dunlops.

 

It was 40 degrees and cloudy in the morning at Shenny a couple weeks ago. I was fine on my Pirelli slicks. OK, they felt like crap and came into the pit colder than they came out of the warmers, but I knew that and took it easy. I talked to the tire vendor and took a pound or two out and it was better after that. Some of that is the fact that Sheeny is always really slippery in the morning anyway and I was able to up the pace to keep the heat in them in the 3rd session and on.