Trump is a Winning Machine

Ok .... You want me to support my statement that no country in the world gets less value from its health care dollar than the USA...

The US spent $ 10,350 per person on Health Care during 2016. That was the highest in the world. Norway spent about $6,600 per capita which put it in fourth highest place in the world for health care spending. Still a lot but only 2/3 of what the US spent per person.

How do we judge the quality and performance of health care ? Well one good way is to look at infant mortality. As a parent, there is absolutely nothing in this world more important to me than keeping my children safe, well and alive. Norway was in a very good 7th place in the world for infant mortality, with 2.5 deaths per 1,000 live births. The USA was in 53rd place in the world with 5.8 deaths per 1,000 live births. (Cuba was clearly in front of the USA - they are 43rd in the world. Not saying that I would want to live there - but Cuba´s health care system definitely does a better job than ours when it comes to keeping their babies alive. And God only knows how much money they have to accomplish this with - but for sure it is only very a small fraction of what the US has.)

Life expectancy is a similar story, the US is 43rd in the world.

Etc...

My source for this is the CIA world factbook.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

 

Of course if you are kept in the ambulance to keep on time records good our government would close that hospital vs Britain where oh yea it was their hospital that did it so it was OK.

Some of our cost is that companies charge more here due to safety regulation cost and government mandates elsewhere. Not all of it for sure but socializing it will not lower costs as Obamacare proved.

As to the Liberal I hope you are wrong and we can Amercianize our newer residents. Freedom is not a race thing, it benefits all the same not just pink people.

 

Where exactly in all that is the information you cite. It sounds oddly like information from another source that has been shown to be nonsense. The infant mortality number is useless without specifics.

 

Here https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2091.html

Like I said, source is the Central Intelligence Agency World Factbook. Has good information about a lot of stuff... Have to believe it is as reliable as anything on the internet these days...

 

Now let's see the breakdown of the factors that contribute to those numbers and how the information is gathered.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2010/08/medical-care-facts-and-fables-thomas-sowell/

 

Dear new guy with 103 posts.

You will NEVER win that discussion because your opponent will NEVER give up and accept your data.

You have been warned.



Love ya IYC.

 

Thanks for the good advice ! Had pretty much already figured it out for myself though....

 

However if you read the article there was some excellent points. None of those points call into question your source which actually is a pretty good one and global.

Lastly discussion is not a competition rather an interchange of ideas. Sometimes minds are changed other times people learn and refine their opinion. Sometimes folks go off on a nutter and nothing is gained You will find a handful that fall into this category here....not myself as I am always right

 

What were the excellent points? I personally thought the article was complete bullshit, but like you said - interchange of ideas rather than a competition. . .

 

I believe the best answer for the disparity for socialized medicine working in European countries vs the United states also answered the question of the disparity in military spending.

The U.S. subsidizes those countries defences with our own.

For those that can't add...

We protect them which allows them to spend more tax money on medicine vs defense.

Remember Trump calling out our allies for not paying their fair share in defense spending?

 

#1 is that longevity is made up of many things with examples

 

Goes deeper than that. We spend more money on health care because we have it, and our population expects it. Our population also is spoiled and obese. We trash ourselves in millions of fast food joints, with frozen dinners, bottles of alcohol, drugs of all type then want the health care industry to fix us we break. That cost money, lots of it, and people don’t care, because it’s usually not their dime. Even after, when some, if not most are fixed/healed/repaired. They go back to what got them there, because it’s too easy not to. Basically, this country is unhealthy, and ripe for the pitfalls that creates. So, I’m not the least surprised at the results given above. One other thing, another poster mentioned is Cuba’s numbers. Cuba is not the most honest about themselves, so take a figure from them with a grain of salt. I’d say Cuba stuffs her bra, and few other countries do too.

 

This. Most Americans would lose their minds if presented with the wait times and restricted services that I recall from when I lived in Canada. I would suspect that you are correct that alot of places with socialized medicine lie about their costs, the US population is for the most part horribly out of shape and needy and government intervention in the health care industry has created an environment that is driving up costs. There is now a medical facility of some sort about every 2 blocks where I live. Almost immediately after the passage of the ACA these facilities started to pop up everywhere so apparently something in the act indicated to companies that there was alot of money to be made.

 

Werd. Seems like there are more Doc in a Box locations than there are Mickey D's.

 

True – what made that bullshit for me was the lack of addressing what that longevity means from an economic and quality standpoint – it’s sort of like how quick they were to point out the 4000 births in elevators and hallways, but left out the fact that there were over 723,000 live births in Britain that year and in the US over 60,000 live births were voluntarily done outside hospitals (the US number is not from 2010). . .

From a standpoint of dollars, and what contributes to our costs vs others and why – they really didn’t address shit. . .

Parents have always had access to world class health care in the US (and have used it). . .this summer, my dad slipped and fell in the shower and hit his head and had to be taken to the hospital – ambulance, overnight stay for observation, neuro diagnostics ect (Spain) – a few years ago, they were in Portugal and he had what they thought was a heart attack – ambulance ride, two days, full cardiac work up while in patient – both times they had to PRE PAY because they weren’t EU citizens – the stay for the fall was under 200.00; the “heart attack” stay was under 300.00 – they said it was amazing quality of health care. . .so much so, that my mom checked on getting her European citizenship back (she’s now a dual citizen). Years ago, dad had a TIA – took six months for a specialist to see him (US) – once he did get in, they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with him. . .had to go to the NIH to get diagnosed and treated. . .

There’s examples of shitty and good practices in every system. I will tell you this – EVERY American I tell the Europe stories to is shocked by having to prepay (and by the looks on their face, you can tell they are expecting tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to be prepaid upfront). . .then when they find out the costs and the quality of care he got – they get pissed. YRMV.

 

I think we can all agree here, that the COST of healthcare is a very real issue here in the US. This is what Obama (and every other prez) really missed a chance to do something about. Honestly, I don't know the real answer. It's got to be a mix of govt red tape, tort reform, and insurance looking for profit. I just know this much, I want govt OUT of anything to do with healthcare. One only needs to look at the VA to see what will happen if we let them in even more.

 

I actually disagree. The cost will only be increased as government gets involved. We need to go back toward a single payer system (the consumer).
Insurance via your employer... gone then YOU manage the cost
Insurance that is not catastrophic would drop so you start paying the doc for a visit of a cold etc. This makes you be concerned with cost AND allows them to reduce staff as there is not the overhead of insurance forms.
Further once people have to pay some of the bills the idea of I want my hospital room to be a single and like the Hilton would decline.
When it is free everyone expects a Ferrari, yet nothing is truly free.

 

Socialized medicine, like socialized anything, is always cheap and wonderful until the money runs out.
GB is now turning back to private insurance and doctors, at least for those who can afford them.

 

Yes !!

I live in Mexico and don’t have any medical insurance.

Just pay cash for whatever we need.

Costs about the same as the 20% co payment we had on the medical insurance which my employer used to provide in the US