Who is in banking here? Fraud liability question.

Last week somebody stole one of my business checks out of the mail, manipulated it, and made copies. They changed the check numbers and amounts and listed the payee as "Joshua M Hargrove", a 21 year old kid with a local address and a rap sheet a mile long. Mr Hargrove then walked in to four separate branches, with four separate checks, and walked out with almost $12,000 of my money.

I know the kid who cashed the checks is probably just a pawn and will be the fall guy for whoever made the counterfeit checks. He'll be easy to find, but I'm sure the mastermind is long gone with 90% of that money.

I'm incredibly frustrated with my bank for allowing this to happen, four times. I feel like ONE $3k check presented for cash should have warranted a phone call, much less three.

The bank is trying to distance themselves from it. They're telling me "the money has left the bank, and was drawn from your account." They're telling me to contact my insurance company.

I've always been under the impression that this fell under the bank's responsibility. Do any of you work in that world and can enlighten me?

 

No help here, but sorry to read this....that really sucks!

 

Um no. Escalate it.

 

https://www.helpwithmybank.gov/get-...aud/bank-accounts-forgery-fraud-quesindx.html

 

If your bank is a National bank, you can probably find some answers here:

https://www.helpwithmybank.gov/get-...aud/bank-accounts-forgery-fraud-quesindx.html

Specifically here:
https://www.helpwithmybank.gov/get-answers/bank-accounts/forgery-and-fraud/faq-banking-fraud-03.html

If it is a state bank, the state banking regulator should probably have a similar site or at least a number or email where you can contact them for help. Make sure you notify the bank in writing as soon as possible so they can't say they haven't been notified.

If you have been a good long term customer of the bank, and they won't help you, you can always threaten to walk away with your business. Unfortunately, if you are with one of the really big banks, unless you have figures with them, they probably won't do much for you.

 

Your issue may be that it is a business account rather than personal. I believe that there are different regulations/processes for each. I've seen this difference addressed in articles about wire fraud in the past. My interest is from a cybersecurity standpoint rather than the financial one, but I remember there being limited liability for the banks to cover fraud losses for business accounts. That may be a place to start your research.

 

I'm more knowledge on the electronic(debit/credit card) side of things so I can't say for sure about your situation. I do know, though, that businesses aren't covered under some regulations. The banks I've worked for would typically still pay out even if we had no obligation so you may want to escalate and see if that gets you anywhere.

 

Oh and I know the OP knows this now, but NEVER put checks into your curbside mail box and put the flag up. This is an invitation to thieves. This scheme has been going on for quiet some time now, and this is the standard MO. Of course the other end is harder to control when the mail arrives somewhere else and is stolen as incoming mail from a mail box. There isn't much you can do about that except try to find electronic ways of moving the money, which of course carry their own risks.

 

Wtf? Had this same thing happen to my business account a few years ago. Chase had the money back in a new account in an hour.

 

Get a police report and also notify the Post Office of the mail theft.

 

Thanks for the links. I'll dig into some of that stuff.

We never put checks in our box so we think this one was stolen from the mailbox of the recipient.

The police are on it, and I just learned that the kid who actually cashed the checks has been arrested. No word yet on whether or not he had any of the money.

 

This is why I have a personal PO box and have for decades.

Well, also because I got tired of replacing mailboxes after the baseball bat crew made their bi-monthly rounds.

 

Keep us informed, with all the gory details.

Sorry for your troubles. None of us need this $hit.

 

I'd also be looking for a new bank.

 

Ok, talked to the wife. Here is what I've gathered from her.

Typically on a business account, you have 24 hours at most or FDIC has to get involved. You need to file a police report ASAP. You also need to ask your bank if they have "positive pay" where you have to OK the check in question to be cashed.

She said when you signed up for that account, you should have read the T&C's about fraud. Business accounts need to be checked daily if not multiple times a day to help prevent fraud.

Mostly likely, you're money is all but gone if it's been very long. Business accounts are completely structured different than personal accounts.

@JBraun

 

Wisconsin. Thanks!

 

This has to be on the bank. I also know that Wisconsin has a lot more consumer loan/debt/financing protections in place for the consumer than other states.

As stated befor also contact the police and the Postal service. Send a certified receipt return signature request to the bank informing them of these fraudulent actions. Find out who the bank president/CEO is and call them as well.

I had an issue with MBNA Credit card and wasn't getting any resolution so I researched who the CEO was and just started calling and got him on the phone. Shit got cleard up but I think who ever transferred me got fired as he was not happy. LOL

 

Difference is consumer...not business. That's treated completely different.

 

Wow. Your bank sucks camel dicks.

Several years ago, I had a guy go into my house and steal my checkbook. He then went around to several branches of my bank making checks out to cash, forging my name to them. He waited a few days, then returned to the first branch. When he came back the 2nd time, they became suspicious and asked him to put his thumbprint on the check. He declined, and ran out.

At that time they put a stop on all checks, and called me. Within 48hrs they had returned all of the money he had taken from me, and had turned his picture (CCTV) over to the police. They said "we will get that money back in your account immediately", before I even asked or mentioned it.