2017 Dyno comparison (new Gixxer)

Yep. I had a 2013 (which was the last year they made a lot of improvements/updates, prior to the 2015 or 2016 version). I rode it on the street for a while, then raced it a little, then put it back on the street. It had the good aftermarket Ohlins front and rear, exhaust, gearing, Power Commander with dyno tune, etc just like any other race bike.

I LOVED the power delivery of the V4 motor. It had great mechanical grip almost like a Twin, but revved faster almost like an I4. The power delivery was so smooth and with Pirelli's on it, the grip was insane. While racing at Barber one time, Shane Horton came up to me after a race and said he was right behind me coming onto the front straight and I was hanging off the left side with my elbow grazing the curbing and he actually saw my right wrist twisting the throttle. He said as soon as he saw how hard I got on the gas, he actually rolled off to back off a little because he thought "Broome is about to highside to the moon", but between the power delivery and sticky tires, it just stepped out a little bit, then hooked up and shot me down the track (TC was turned off).

I also loved the ergo's of it and how tiny it was. Sitting on it, it felt like a 600.

But I had 2 big gripes with it.

1. Fueling - at about 7-7.5k the Lower injectors completely stop and the Uppers take over. The difference is that they don't overlap (or the Lowers don't keep spraying) like on other bikes. It is a drastic change from the Lowers to the Uppers. It caused such a dip/cut that it could be felt on track, enough to upset the chassis and even mess up my line as I was trying to accelerate hard enough to let the throttle carry me to the edge of the track. Livengood spent hours trying to resolve it and made it a little better. But it cant totally be fixed without Motec or Magnetti electronics that let you actually control the injectors.

2. Weight - it is heavy as hell. That frame and swingarm look cool, but they are heavy as hell...and so is the motor. Which means in race trim it doesn't get much lighter (unlike other bikes) because all of the weight is in the motor and chassis. In race trim it is almost 80lbs heavier than my 1299S. It "hides" its weight well on track and handles pretty good, and in fairness I actually set a PB at Jennings on it (1:17). But that was one flying lap, and I cant explain the effort it took to muscle it around that tight back section. There is no way I could have maintained that pace for race distance.

Those 2 gripes are what made me put it back on the street and for racing I replaced it with the 1299S.

 

would any of those others in your top 5 or 10 also have multiple IOMTT wins?

 

RSV4's are such cool bikes. But Broome had to ruin it for me.

 

Dude, I don't care all that much about the TT unless it's in Peoria.

The IOM is a nice distraction but I'm not a fanatic about it or any of the roads events.

 

Better?

 

See, I don't think so.

You seem to be using Engine Power as the primary reason why 3 bikes dominated road racing for a few years. However, I pointed out a truly unlimited modification series (removes most series rule book bias) where the highest HP bikes did not win. Nor would they today. Correlation <> Causation.

My counter is those 3 bikes had the best combination of engine power, handling, electronics, brakes, racing development, and riders to dominate. And going forward, it's still that combination that wins races.

 

No, you wouldn't. The owner would probably let you fondle his fiancée before he would let you touch his bike.

Full disclosure: I know him pretty well.

 

Papa, you're confusing me...deepsxepa wants to ride the Honda, the Suzuki, the Aprilia, the Ducati, someone's fiance' or someone's financier?

I thought he wanted to ride the Honda, so you're half right. It's untouchable.

 

You are correct, I thought he was talking about Bobby's bike.

 

They are cool bikes.

For 2016 (or 2015, I cant remember which), they got a BIG jump in power in order to compete with the Panigale/BMW/ZX10, they got like a 20-25hp jump (which is why they suddenly became competitive in WSTK, when prior to that they couldn't crack the top 10). I am pretty sure for 2017 they are getting the IMU based electronics.

I love the ergos and how compact they are (as a rider; Livengood hated it ). They are by far the best sounding machine on the track (even better than my 1299S with the full Akrapovic IMO), and that V4 motor is awesome.

But it is the 2nd heaviest Liter bike of all of them (it is only a few lbs lighter than the MV F4). If they would drop about 30lbs off of that beefy ass frame/swingarm/motor, and resolve that Injector issue so they overlap like other bikes, it would absolutely be the perfect Liter bike.

 

Like I said, that isn't just me saying that. I have seen all the races and the commentators and other people they interviewed said the same thing. The other bikes were simply giving away too much out of corners and on the straights. In that series no motor work is allowed, so there was a 20-25+ HP differential. The rules are very limited, so other than that, the bikes were all built the same. And we are talking about the World level, where ALL of the riders are top notch. So in that series, the biggest single variable was HP in stock form.

In a "no holds barred" fully unlimited National series, there are unlimited variables...unproven bike/motor/chassis combinations, wide variances of talent, big disparities in finances between teams, different tires and fuel, etc. In WSTK, all of the riders and teams are good, and the bikes are damn near showroom stock (other than exhaust, rearsets, and other typical bolt-on stuff), and they used spec tires and fuel. Which means all of those other variables are removed.

It would be different if we were talking about one year, or one team, or one rider. Or even if we were talking about one bike that was dominant. But that isn't the case. We are talking about over a 4 year span, with multiple different riders and multiple different teams. And im not just talking about winning either, I am talking about even being able to crack into the top 5-10. Regardless of the rider or team, no other bike other than those 3 was able to be competitive...and because the rules are so restrictive, the biggest variable was the huge HP discrepancy of the stock motors. In a spec series, on the World level where everyone is good, it is damn hard to overcome that big of a HP deficit.

The Honda arguably had the best chassis over those years, and everyone knows the Suzuki had the most developmental time over the last decade (and both of those were competitive in WSBK where mods were unlimited), and over those years the Yamaha and Aprilia both won a ton of races in WSBK. But over that same span not a single one of those 4 manufacturers were able to land on the podium in WSTK where motor modifications aren't allowed.

Those 4 bikes were competitive and even dominant in WSBK, but nowhere to be seen in WSTK...and those were the 4 weakest bikes off the showroom floor...could that be a coincidence? Maybe so, and myself and the commentators could be wrong. But i find it highly unlikely.

 

Jesus, Verby…
I haven't read a damn thing you've posted this week. It just looks too big.

 

http://www.visordown.com/news/racing/wsb/buy-carl-fogartys-1998-ducati-996

Was it a 916 or a 996 in 1998? I thought they also ran a 955cc 916 somewhere in 1995-96-97 time frame.

 

Holy shit!! 80 lbs??! I figured in race trim an RSV4 would not be more than about 410 lbs. What's your 1299S weigh? I haven't talked to anyone that has a race 1299, just street bikes, but I figured about 350 or so for race trim?

The weight is disappointing for sure if it's that bad. I knew the RSV4's were not known to be among the lightest but I didn't realize they were that heavy compared to the competition.

 

Fair enough and I respect that opinion.

How do you reconcile that with Suzuki v Ducati in MotoGP 2016? Although Ducati won 300-295 team pts, Suzuki won best rider v best rider. The engine power theory would suggest Ducati dominance.

 

You can get the RSV4's down in weight some if you want to get some CF or Magnesium wheels, use Ti bolts everywhere, CF bodywork, so on and so forth. If you are willing to spend enough money, you can make anything happen. But the motor and chassis is so heavy, that you reach a point of diminishing returns.

When they weighed my 1299S after race prepping it, it was 353lbs. That's what happens when there is no frame.

Conventional bikes can only be made so light (assuming the rules don't dictate a minimum weight). You can only change out so many parts and remove so many things. At some point, if you want to make something really light, you have to think outside the box...which is what Ducati did when they built a bike with no frame.

 

Oh man, MotoGP is a whole 'nother can of worms.

 

He must be "at work"...

 

John, I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way and I mean no disrespect, but wasn't there a Kawi that quit running during a comparison test that later was found to have a shop rag stuck in either the airbox or top end? I guess I'd be curious why a bike that was supposed to be stock was sent to a shop and opened up and then sent off to the test.....maybe that's standard procedure or maybe I'm missing something.