AskEd: knee down

the first time I touched my knee, it was ALMOST better than sex!
spent the rest of the session actually kneeling in it, to make sure it would show. Ended up burning a hole through my leathers. Now I just make it skip allong the track and lift it over the rumple strips. still dont know WHY but, it feels comfee now

 

I have no problem dragging a knee, but I'm still slow, seriously.

From what I understand, dragging your knee is just a byproduct of the position you should be in, hanging your ass of the bike. If you are dragging bike parts, it's because you're not hanging off enough. You need to move the center of gravity, etc.

On a related note, I was watching Silver Dream Racer last night and nobody was dragging a knee. This was supposed to be late 70's early 80's. Was it because tires sucked in those days? When did knee dragging become doable?

 

I believe Kenny Roberts was one of the first to start doing it.

 

After racing 125's and really learning what corner speed is, I don't think it is advantageous. A lot of the GP riders "drag" but if you look, they aren't putting a lot of pressure down. That tends to lever the bike I've found (couple of low sides). However, I haven't really looked into the physics of it. It would seem to me that the more "pressure" you have on your knee (increasing lean angle, not just hanging off more), the less "weight" the tires would have to "support" and therefore you could get more corner speed....but then again, I haven't really thought too hard on it.

I think using the knee as a gauge is what most folks do. Dragging may look cool but the first time you dive under someone and throw your bike hard into a corner and smack the shit out of your knee on the curbing and lose a puck...it'll make you think twice about how "cool" it looks.

If you can get away with not leaning as far and you keep your times down...I say go for it...I know I've lost a couple of races due to breaking my shifter/and or brake pedal by being over too far....

That's my .02 for what it is worth. If you want to look cool, go do wheelies and stoppies at 100+ with no helmet and heavy traffic so we can all get cheap parts. If you want to learn how to corner, pick a corner or two that you want to work on and work those corners...try to go faster, relax on the rest of the course (not in a race of course but on track days) and try to think about what you could do to pick up the pace. Lap timers are great learning tools if used properly. I gave up on mine because I could only get 2 hot laps before either a yellow flag or a slower rider would hold me up so....
Take your time learning and don't be stingy with tires. I was cheap too many times and wrecked every time on shagged out tires...not worth it.

Ok, that said, have fun. That's what it's all about.

 

I use my knee as a guage. when it touches, I bring it in as I get more lean angle. Pucks are expensive!

 

He said Cal Rayborn showed him.

http://www.amasuperbike.com/2004/Jan/040116a.htm

David

 

I had some friends that were draging everything but there knees chasing my F3 with stock rearsets not draging and what we found was they were sticking there knees out and I was pushing mine down.

Think about it as a triangle with the point at the ground the higher up your knee the farther out from the bike it can be with out draging. If you want to drag it just to see what its like try a differant riding position with your knee more down than out.

That being said I just skim mine, my pucks last along time its just a tool in most cases.

PS. watch the speed bump in the right hander before the bowl at grattan it'll bite you if you hit it with your knee.....IT HURTS!

 

First Kneedragger

Kenny R was the first American racer to drag knees -- much to Kel Carruthers horror.
But -- Finlands Jarno Saarinen(sic) was the first around 1970.
Paul Smart of England was also one of the first kneedraggers.

 

Why doesn't someone ask Aaron Yates if its important. Oh yeah, he was dragging his ELBOW at Mid-Ohio.

Its not something you do just to do it, its a by product of really cornering hard and getting the bike over.

I get my knee down, both sides, at most tracks. I hang off quite a bit which keeps the bike a little more upright with a wider contact patch.

The older more classical style is to stay more tight with the bike and actually leam the bike over more.

 

knee dragging low down

You do not !!!! have to drag your knee to be fast.!!!!!!!

It adds no "NO" benifit for cornering. The only thing you want on the ground is you two tires.

All the other stuff about knee dragging is BS.

Now it feels cool, it's kind of neet. you'll go thrugh your knee dragging faze then get it out of your system.

You MIGHT MIGHT!!!! save a low side with your knee BUT don't count on it.

If you are cornering real fast eventually you knee will touch. But it should not be a GOAL.!!

Worry more about what your tires are doing in the turn NOT your knee

 

Your question is??

 

YES ! Just for looks and fun !

 

Again "THEY SAY"

Don't confuse hanging off with knee dragging it's two different techniques. Hang off as must as you can and stay in control and comfortable. But don't worry about drgging your knee!

Take a peek at my avitar for a hint to good, relaxed and comfortable and controled body position

 

It's a movie no basis in reality. They had to go slow so the camera man din't fall out of the pick up bed.

We were dragging our knees in 1968.

Yes before that the tires SUCKED. you would run out of tire and slid long before you run out of ground clearance so why hang off it didn't do any thing.

 

You need to find a comfortable body position that will allow you to control the bike most efficiently. Whether or not your knee touches shouldn't be a concern.

If you're grinding pucks down every other weekend then I would think you're putting to much weight on the knee. If you are dragging your knee you are slowing the bike down. You're adding another friction point that isn't needed.

Saying that, I like to just skim my knee, and I feel a little more confident when it is down then when it isn't. It is just a mental thing where I know I have safely been at this point before. Another reference point.

Ed offers pretty good tips on body position in his class. I would say body position should be the thing beginners work on first, as that is your base!

 

Huh, people actually push down on their knee? Skimming unless you feel that fateful slide. My pucks are 3 season old (and a LOT of track miles) and still aren't wore out.

 

I've never wore out a pair of pucks. I think once the amusement factor is over most people stop obsessing over it!

 

Thank you Ed. Good to hear someone say the knee thing isnt needed. Now if I can get my head screwed on straight after last track day spill I will take your class asap.

 

Mine too.

I do occasionaly push down on my knee, but just for fun, like on the cool down lap. I've noticed that it changes the "sound" of the puck grinding some, so I try to make a little "music" : push down, lift up, push down, etc, etc,

The other time I remember pushing down on my knee was coming out of Dead Bear at Putnam on my old RF600R street bike. It felt like the only way I could get that ol' pig to stand back up was to "push" it up and I was using my leg to assist me!

 

I got beaten up on another site for saying this, but...

I remember Kenny Roberts saying that the old bikes didn't corner for sh**, so he pushed the bike up using his knee as a lever.
He then found that it unweighted the rear and allowed him to essentially pick up the rear and move it to a better line. I heard Freddie Spencer say it was the way to control the rear slide too.

Anyone ever hear this, or am I (as they said on the other site) crazy.

Today's tires are good enough to hold the line, but we're talking 1980s when Freddie was riding an Interceptor.