AMA/MOTOAMERICA Entry Level Class, KTM Cup

Part of the race kit is an orange sledgehammer for such repairs

 

don't they just bang it out on the Ninja 250s?

 

This whole thing makes one appreciate how awesome the old Aprilia RS250 cup bikes were.

 

I'm sure they were, but 2T's are DEAD DEAD DEAD for roadracing.

 

This

 

You would stroke out with all the nooks and crannies on that chassis that could get dirty.

 

Only for us poor idiots on 2-wheels. The rich car guys are smart with their money and exclusively race 2-stroke karts: http://www.rotax-kart.com/Max-Challenge/

Truth is, Honda has a problem with 2-strokes. They have a bit of a 4-stroke obsession, regardless of the facts of engineering. They convinced the AMA, Dorna and every other organization to punish 2-strokes at every level of competition. So us average folk pay the price for their religious convictions.

"[Takeo Fukui, Design Director]...made it clear that Honda views itself as a four-stroke company that will not be satisfied until it wins all of its championships with four-strokes." [2]

So we pay more because Honda has an ideology to uphold, not because "2-strokes are dead". Due to the costs of the 4-strokes, entry level two wheel racing is in absolute disarray across the USA. Coincidentally, Spain and Italy have their own 2-stroke GP bike brands [3].

I'll tell you what's gonna happen. We'll stumble on trying to make production racing work at the entry level until electric GP bikes become competitive. Tesla is already building a $5 Billion battery factory that's going to push battery tech forward at a massive clip. Soon as that happens, 4-strokes and 2-strokes are history. The question is, should we piss away hard earned dollars in the meantime on 4-stroke hand grenades, or be reasonable like the kart folk and make do with a cheap, reliable 2-stroke?

But hey, don't mind me, I'm just a crazy engineer. Facts and physics make me nutty sometimes.


2. http://www.dirt-bike-tips-and-pics.com/future-of-two-strokes.html

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUS4fvXgnE

 

You making point for not racing 2 strokes any more

 

I was all like "preach on!" till I got down to the electric bike preaching...

 

And "I'm an Engineer" is always a good way to make me leery...

 

Electric drivetrains are superior to combustion in every way. They are over 90% efficient, compared to, at best, 30% for combustion. They produce max torque at 0 RPM. They have one moving part, require zero maintenance, and last forever. The only issue is storage (batteries), which is gonna take a while to develop to a point where the energy density matches combustion fuels.

We don't know how long it'll take to get to that point. KTM has played around with it [1], but has decided to hold off till batteries improve. It's gonna happen, the question is when.

It might take 10-15 years though, so till then, 2-strokes all the way.


1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-AzDZt1IcM

 

Well no shit! Every proponent of electrics for the last century has used this line as if it's a small hurdle.

 

Yup, it's no small feat believe me. But now the free market in all its unholy ferocity is bearing down on the problem. Smartphones, tablets and Teslas all need better and cheaper batteries, so the economic incentive will push the engineering along right quick.

I'm not chucking the gas guzzlers any time soon though. I'm a die hard 2-stroke proponent, and I'll definitely keep mine even once electrics get big. They represent the pinnacle of combustion engineering. In particular, this baby right here:

http://www.ronax500.com/en/


But back on topic. Spec engines, cheap to maintain, and fast. It's very important for the entry level. Once they jump on 600s, the economies of scale are in such force that those will be the cheapest mid tier platform for a long time.

That won't stop me trying to put one of these babies in a 600 frame though:

http://www.brp-powertrain.com/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-235/374_read-355/

Giddy up.

 

Speaking of batteries, I saw this today.

http://www.iflscience.com/technolog...minate-batteries-electric-cars-within-5-years

 

People have been working on the "only issue" for over 100yrs and haven't gotten all that close to making it work. I'm guessing most of us will be gone or too old to drive anymore when they do get battery density up to task.

 

I hoard small two strokes into my garage like a stripper does shoes in her closet. That being said I had this exact thought today... While my five year old will one day be riding the Derbi's and Yamaha's I have stashed, my seven week old will probably end up on electric bikes by sheer default. I have a hard enough time finding parts for the now defunct Derbi's since the factory closed. I can only imagine how hard that will be in ten years time. I've said it before on this forum, but knowing that the direct injection 2 strokes run cleaner than the 4T scooters in asia, I really think it boils down to the manufacturers not wanting to invest in two different engine technologies.

 

I understand this is a forum for professional contrarians, but:

http://www.teslamotors.com/models

 

More on Honda's crusade, definitely worth a read:

http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1979pistonengine/

Love Honda but...this is a case of obsession, not rational engineering. Unfortunately most of us here have learned this the hard way over the past decade.

I really don't get why Soichiro hated the 2-stroke for being simple. In all STEM disciplines, the simpler you can make something, the better. Complexity for its own sake is the anti-christ, and has lead many a company into ruin.

Oh well. Once laser-sintering additive manufacturing machines get cheaper, I won't have to worry so much about spare parts.

 

4 stroke dominated grand prix racing before two stroke came, remember MV.
Two strokes had 15-20 year span where they kicked ass.
btw. I grew up riding 2 strokes, from mopeds to 750cc, I can care less to ride them or work on them.
Just ride whatever technology brings and enjoy

 

Nuff said http://youtu.be/ZmvuQ-UShns