Obama Says WWJD - This Guy Is Going Too Far !

Aren't you Jesus nuts Jesused out yet? I get bored with Mario Karts in about 10 minutes but you all seem to want to play Jesus Karts for hours on end.

 

I'm not quite sure I understand where you're trying to lead with your question. My admittedly sarcastic comment stemmed from the knowledge that the Founding Fathers of the USA were driven by religious agendas that didn’t agree with the King.

 

No. But I'm not a nut either.

 

Would you care to cite the source for this 'knowledge'?

 

Wut Bob said.

Don't confuse the Revolutionaries with the Puritans.

 

All true, except for Jesus being a "small 'c' communist".

Communism, small or large C, requires coercion. If there is one thing Jesus never did, it was the act of coercion. When Jesus advocated charity to the rich man, he didn't tell him to go get other people's wealth and give that to the poor. He said to "give all YOUR wealth to the poor", he was talking to that man personally. The man went away troubled, at which point the episode ends.

 

Wrong.

Small "c" communism is a voluntary collective.

Capital "C" communism is a system of governance with a collectivist/redistributionist model.

 

In that case, OK.

Even then I'm not so sure, Jesus was a carpenter prior to His ministry and the bible doesn't say anything about Him working for free or for some community-determined price.

Will I see you in Chan or at Bethel tomorrow????

 

OT, God the Father was instructing His followers directly.

NT, Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT covenant, which invalidated a lot of the levitical and other odd things ("all things are allowed, but not are all beneficial"). Jesus was God's embodiment on earth, though Jesus was also fully human, he had to eat, sleep, and crap just like all humans.

 

I was under the impression it was more about taxation without representation and establishing personal and political rights beyond the confines of oppressive British rule, but then again I wasn't there.

That said, I'm not gonna argue about religion; everybody has their beliefs. But I do think a leader - any leader - within this country needs to curtail the intertwining of their religious beliefs with the messages they present.

In a secular, democratic society it's bad form to side with any one religious group when espousing agendas that are meant to govern everybody. Besides displaying a pre-disposition towards favoring one group over another, it shows that perhaps the level of thinking being incorporated in the more 'significant' decisions isn't completely based upon fact and logic.

In other words, when the leader of my nation refers to a book of fables as being a guide for what appropriate policy should be, I get concerned.

And it's not just Obama; as much as I agree with Santorum's tax and business growth ideologies, his Bible-huggin' scares the crap out of me.

 

I wasn't there either but here's what they had to say (quoted from the Declaration of Independance, not the entire document just the first and last sentence and I "bolded" certain portions for emphases):

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.


— And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.


Divine Providence= God


And as for the "book of fables" comment- nice try:up:

I'm just pulling facts...

Oh, check out your money..."In God we trust"...If you don't like it you can send it all to me

 

I understand all that, but the Declaration of Independance and Revolutionary War weren't initiated for 'God'. They were done to correct a condition of oppression and inequity that was created by man.

Not trying anything - honest. We all have our own beliefs.

I understand our founding fathers utilized the concepts of God and faith to bind their principals, and I have no issue with that whatsoever. You also have to remember that this was during a time where religion in and of itself played a much more prominent role in everyday life, and was still often used as the default reasoning behind circumstances that couldn't be explained.

Back then, Little Johnny died because that's what God determined should happen. Today we know if Little Johnny had access to basic antibotics and sanitary conditions he'd still be around.

 

Another thing to consider is that while many of the Founding Fathers were Christian, a goodly number of them were Deists.

They also espoused, as evidenced by the First Amendment as well as the writings of Jefferson, a "wall of separation" between governance and religious pursuit. It is one of the cornerstones of liberty that no one is compelled to embrace a system of belief he may not share.

Of course, with the abandonment of Federalism, we're all universally fucked by those fucks on the Potomac, so may as well put a steeple on the White House and a Star of David on the Capitol. :down:

 

It is amazing how much drivel the atheist/agnostic minority can make.

 

Pardon us, there's a shitload of catching up to do...

 

Cite, please.

 

Which one?

Which was NOT on our currency until 1864. Were we a godless nation until then? And it was NOT REQUIRED on all of our currency until 1954.

OBTW, it didn't become our official motto until 1956, two years after the words "under god" were inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

Sure. I have no objection to anyone's religion. I have STRONG objections to people who want to control my life/work/marriage by the tenets of their beliefs.