Anyone into AR15's?

Colt Rail Gun 100th anniversary in 2-tone before the year is out.

Thats my Xmas present to myself

 

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What suppressor do you have mounted?

 

True

 

Can you guys give me a quick primer on some of the optic terms? Red-dot, co-witness, multi-retical, MOA? I've been all over the AR-15, 15-22, and rimfire sights, but a lot of this shit is just Greek to me.

I'm set on getting the M&P 15-22 (I'm a big believer in starting small and logical progression - It took me probably ten bikes to go from a KZ400 to a GSXR1000 when I started riding, and probably 5 bikes from a mini to an SV when I started racing). That's how I want to approach this.

I want to outfit it as a fun plinker/squirrel/crow/etc gun, with some sort of optic, but not necessarily try to make it a 'tack driver'. I think I would like some magnification though. It will see range time, but just as a matter of having fun shooting, not trying to make it the most accurate .22 on the planet. If I want that I will build a 10/22 later. The problem I imagine is that staring through a 4x32 scope (or something like that) while plinking and shooting varmints seems somewhat counter-productive. Am I wrong? Serious question, I really don't know if having your eye in a scope all the time takes some 'fun' away or causes you to miss what's going on around you, but that's what I imagine. Are the 1x red dot scopes worth a shit for what I'm intending to use it for? Is my field of vision going to be shit using it like that? I imagine this gun's most used range for me will be 50-75 yards and under.

Thanks again for all the pointers. I know jack shit about guns, but I'm enjoying learing a little. I would spend more time on the various 15-22 and rimfire forums, but to be honest even the newbie threads seem to either be way over my head, or the target audience is more the dad setting up his 9 years old's first rifle. It's info overload.

 

Red dot means just that - it is a single red dot (or sometimes a cross-hair) that indicates your point of aim (where the bullet will hit). It's not a laser or anything, just a sight. Some are holographic, some are not. Good ones are Aimpoint and Eotech although there are lots and lots of copies now.

Co-witness means that the optic lines up with the iron sights - basically instead of lining up one or two things, you're lining up three. Some people just want to "see" the iron sights, so maybe they're a little lower than the optic.

Multi-reticle means you have options on what your reticle/dot looks like. It can be a triangle, cross, dot, etc in multiple colors but usually red or green.

MOA means "minute of angle". More or less it's a measurement equal to one inch at 100yds.


Also, instead of the M&P22 you might look at something more true to the AR platform like the CMMG 22lr rifle. Or just get a regular lower and get a dedicated 22 upper. The M&P22 looks a whole lot like an AR, but it's not exactly like an AR, like some of the others are. It's also primarily plastic:tut:

 

I built a DPMS AR-10 using a CMMG lower a few years ago before the current 308 craze hit and it's one of (if not) the best rifles I own at the moment.

Everyone who shoots it giggle like little girls when they do because it's just so more more oomph than a 556 round. By comparison, a friend and I were out shooting at an outdoor public range. We were shooting at a 4x4 post on the hill opposite of us and his M&P15 was making little dust clouds about a foot high. I fired off a few with mine and it was making clouds three to four feet high taking major pieces of the post with each shot. The difference in mass and impact is just too significant between the two.

The only 'extra' I splurged on for the rifle was an Enidine Hydraulic buffer for it. It takes a significant amount of recoil out of it, helps to reduce wear on the bolt carrier group and you don't have nearly as much spring passing your ear as the buffer goes by. The only downside is that sometimes with lower velocity rounds it won't lock the bcg back on the last round being fired, a minor inconvenience for the benefits.

An AR-10 is a must have if you're a nutter...


Oh yeah, my AR-10 shoots .5" groups at a mile.

 

Definitely an AR-10!

My must have's are: AR-15 (check), good .22 (check), solid Glock (check), bolt action rifle (check), pump shotgun (working on it), ccw weapon (working on it), .22 pistol (working on it), AR-10 (wish list), AK (wish list), Benelli combat shotgun (wish list), and a whole slew of suppressors

 

Still don't get it.

On the M&P - I actually like that it's a dedicated .22LR, and the reviews seem overwhelmingly positive. I will have a real 5.56 AR in the future (this gun shit is really gonna put a dent in the bike budget ) but for now, this will do.

So is the difference in ammo cost. Just sayin.

I'm a newbie, I need to keep this economical or it will just turn into another hobby that I can't justify money for over race shit and the stuff will get sold. I know my history.

Agree with all of those, nearly the same as my wish list.

 

To put MOA into perspective, if you adjust your scope one MOA left, it will move the point of impact at 100 yards one inch to the left.

As for the budget, the .22lr rifles that use a standard AR lower will cost about the same as the M&P now but when it comes time to buy a full size in the future you can just buy an upper which will save you hundreds of dollars compared to having to buy an entire rifle.

 

As far as cost for .308, you can find ammo for around fifty cents per round which is cheap when you look at what's involved in it. You just gotta keep your eye out and "buy or goodbye" when the time is right.

And if you're worried about money - guns are the last thing you need to have a fixation on. But you already accept that problem, seeing as we're discussing this on a motorcycle forum.

 

with regards to a sight system and the .22 caliber round at those distances, be aware that, depending on the ammo, the bullet can drop 2" from its 50yd "zero" to its 75yd point of impact.
so, do you want to make the adjustment by turning elevation knobs, holding your reticle center the appropriate amount over the target or just use some iron sights and figure out how much higher you have to put the front post to hit the target?

as to losing out on the surroundings with a scope, yes, that's why a high power scope isn't a good choice for close-in(100yds) deer hunting. with a 9x, it might take you time to find that deer in the reticle. a 4x works better in that regard but, honestly, 100yds, you don't need any magnification from a scope...a red dot works just fine. there are some available with a very low profile and they are quick to put on target. you could just have unmagnified crosshairs, as well.

iron sights. yes and no.
yes, you see everything and i think they have the ability to instill good discipline.
no, if they suck you'll just be frustrated. how could they suck? there's some cheap shit out there. if you really want to target shoot a .22 and develop some amazing marksmanship skills, get a good set of peep sights on an accurate rifle platform. if the gun sucks, it doesn't matter how good your sights are...the converse is also true.

how to choose if you only want to buy once, for now?
take your hand and give yourself the peace sign about 6" from your face. with your other hand hold up a finger at arms length and sight that finger between the v of the peace sign. now, put that one finger on a designated target and see how the v lines up. you have to line all three of those up to hit the target. if the v is narrow, it makes it a little easier. that's iron sights, basically.
scoped reticle or red dot, hold up your crucifix and lay it on the target. almost that simple. i feel you may be cheating yourself in the long run using that route, tho'.

there are alternate iron sights as there are alternate scope reticles and red dots....that's why i mentioned peep sights. they will train you to use a scope well.

if you really are the type of person to start with the first steps, you could go as low as a single shot bolt action in a very good package. a bolt with a magazine is also a good choice...might not get bored and you have a lot quicker follow up shot. if you think you might spend as much as $1000, go for something like a biathlon rifle...accurate as hell and available in semi-auto for nearly the ultimate in follow ups. of course, full-auto being the ultimate.

any gun, basically, can be a plinker. what matters is whether you know you are hitting the target, or not, because you've applied the proper skills.
the NRA has targets designed explicitly for small bore shooters...the 10x ring is the diameter of the .22 bullet. when you can hit that ring 5/5 at 50' then you move to the next challenge. the 10x becomes a pin hole. hit that 5/5 at 50' and you are on your way to being very, very good.
btw, the whole black mess of rings on the pin hole 10x target looks like a pin hole at 50'. good reason for choosing peep sights.
when it's all said and done, there shouldn't be any question about whether it was you or the gun that missed the shot.

"son, see that squirrel out there at 200 yards? shoot him in the eye."
"which eye, pa?

<edit> i know of a former racer who spends way less on his marksmanship pursuits than he ever did racing.

 

surefire, I know there's cheaper, but the quick detach was worth paying the price for me and many other factors.

a dpms 308 suppressed, with an acog or rifle scope would be the best weapon. You can get some good sub sonic ammo even though it doesn't cycle, you don't need to cause it's so quiet.

 

Yup. Every hobby I've ever had has been expensive, like most guys.

That said, motorcycles are not a 'hobby' to me - anything outside of work and family that I decide to engage in is ultimately second to motorcycles. It's always been that way.

I don't want to buy a $1000 AR with the idea that I'll shoot it on my inlaws' property and at the range with my buddies, only to find it gathering dust within months because it's not high on my priority list. I'll stick with something ~$500 and see if I put my time where my mouth is. If so, then I'll keep collecting. But, I know myself... every superfilous (sp) purchase is weighed against something else - "Hmm, that's a badass grill.... but I could get that lathe I've been wanting with that money..."

The bike shit always wins out. That's why I'm starting cheap. My wife (who comes from a family of gun nuts, on both sides) even said "You're gonna get into guns? Yeah, right. You'll spend whatever you can on bike stuff and you know it".

 

With the 22 you can shoot it at nearly any range, even indoors. With the right ammo and/or suppressor, you can shoot it in your back yard.

 

That's what I'm talking about. :up:

But NIMBY, I live in the city. It's all about usabillity for me, right now.

 

KAC is overpriced and their M110 systems have issues. Just because they price themselves out of most people's budgets doesn't make them the top of the pile.

 

My squirrel gun is this with this. It can be done for under $500 and is a much safer hunting rifle than an auto-loader. It might be the most fun gun I have to shoot. Everybody loves a lever action and it is very accurate. When I have friends come shoot they like my AR but everyone begs to shoot the Henry more. Plus the octagonal barrel and walnut stock are beautiful.

I would go with a variable power scope if you are thinking of target shooting or varmint hunting. It gives you the most options. Remember, the field of view isn't that important when hunting varmints, squirrels, etc. You don't really shoot them on the run. With the above set-up I can shoot a fox squirrel in the head from 30 yards every time with standard ammo. I call that good enough.

All of that being said, I really like the M&P .22 and have heard good things about it. It is one of the guns I look at every time I go to the gun show. If a good deal shows up I'll probably get one. I would not want it to be my only .22 and I would probably not use it for hunting.

 

Scotty, why not just buy a used 10/22 for $150ish to see if you'll like it?? $500 (imo) is still a lot of coin to drop to see if you'll like something. And a 10/22 has the option to be turned into almost anything you want it to.

By the time you shoot the 10/22 a bunch, which gun you next want might have changed, who knows. I know there's been some guns I read/see and think that I have to have them, right then right now. but in a week, I can't see where I would ever shoot it.

 

I'd love a used one. Problem is, there really don't seem to be any deals near me, or I'm doing it wrong. Probably the latter. A buddy of mine and I went to a gun show a few weeks ago and the prices on new guns were worse than Gander Mountain (seriously) and there were hardly any used guns for sale. Only gun show I've ever been to though, so I don't know if that's normal.

I really don't wana buy one froma pawn shop. Are those online used gun places okay? Waht are some of the better ones?

 

Or a Marlin model 60, $100 or so. Tube fed, 15 rd tube or so. They don't make a lot of aftermarket stuff for these though. I have one in camo that my FIL gave to me. I never shoot it haha. The 10/22 always comes out when it's time to play .22's