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should I buy a TZ250?

Discussion in '2-Stroke Machines' started by nokturnal, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. nokturnal

    nokturnal Well-Known Member

    I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying a 95 TZ250, and selling my RS250 cup. Just wondering if the epxerts can chime in with regard to up keep. The RS gives a little more room being a street bike originally, but how much.

    What are the TZs-
    1) crank life/approx cost to rebuild
    2) piston life/cost
    3) ring life/cost


    Besides the tires and race gas, anything else that is going to be more expensive? Dry clutch replacement intervals?

    :beer:

    thanks a lot.
     
  2. nokturnal

    nokturnal Well-Known Member

    I should add that it will not be raced (anytime soon), trackdays only.
     
  3. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK über alles!

    Trackdays? I'd stay with the RS if it was me. Getting a TZ soley for a trackday bike is like picking up a pornstar only for someone to hang out with to eat biscotti with at Starsmucks.
     
  4. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    :stupid:

    The TZ would be too expensive to run as just a TD bike for me.
     
  5. gpracer15

    gpracer15 Built to Ride


    From what I have seen over the years 1000-1200 miles on a crank, 250-300 miles for the pistons.

    Check out Accumix for rebuild costs.... Im guessing $800-1000 for crank and $300-350 for the top ends....That a GUESS....

    Dont forget you will need to run fuel. The cheaper C12 from VP the last I checked was around $60 for 5 gallons.

    The Aprilia RS is more like a turn key two stroke where the TZ will require constant jetting changes through the day
    to get peak performance and no siezures.

    I have never had one due to costs but I have plenty of Honda RS125 experience. Take the 125 cost and maintenance and
    double it for the TZ
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  6. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    Your bottom end cost is a bit low and your top-end cost is a bit high, but you're close enough. :up:
     
  7. JamesBeedle

    JamesBeedle New Member

    Try 2004 and on RS125. Parts are still resonable and it is a blast to ride. I have raced TZ250's, RGV250SP (VJ23) and RGV250 (VJ22) and there is no better blast on the track if you have money to keep up the TZ. The RS250 is a hopped up RGV VJ22 motor so the TZ would be a step above the RS250. Expense is not too high if the engine is setup properly and you watch the clutch like a hawk. Ease out the clutch for track days since there are no race starts. No use in doing a long high rev slip if you are just pulling out on the track like it was race practice. A long summer of track days is not going to be too hard on the engine. Piston clearence and squish is the key. Too close and too tight leads to mucho money but if you set it up stock squish and timing. Set the clearance wall to piston 24 thousands and piston to head at 24 thousands. At 24 thousands you get no piston head contact at over rev. Rings are cheap and a good way to keep up the HP. I will not question the previous posts on cost but if you are track day riding it can be affordable if you start with a fresh engine with proper set up. Check around the web for parts that will be cheaper the oem yamaha prices. Also aftermarket such as VHM or Wassner pistons. Don't limit to them just do alot of web surfing and the UK still has alot of 2 stroke shops. I will never regret the money I spent on a 250gp bike! By the way I have been seting up my sons 2006 RS125 for the last 4 years. I start with a fresh engine each 12 to 14 months then replace pistons and rings thruout the period with good results. The only real problem is watching the piston ring groove gap because we run a VHM head with a 10.00cc head insert and the gap can close up with HRC pistons and not so much with Wassner pistons (forged). I say buy it and make sure you start with a fresh engine. You'll never regret the thrill of the ride.
     
  8. nokturnal

    nokturnal Well-Known Member

    Wow, pistons every 300 miles.

    I have 2 bikes (RS and a GSXR) so my track time is split between those two. I only do about about 7 days/season. I figure I would put about ~400 miles on each bike judging from the past couple of years. So I guess that is a 3 topends over 2 years, and a crank every 2 years. so about 1200/year in engine maintenance.

    I already run 50/50 race fuel, so 100% is not that much of a jump.

    It is definitely tough to justify the $, being triple what the RS maintenance is (duration and $)...

    Everyone wants to bang a pornstar, maybe not forever, but for a little bit would be nice. Just for the experience. :D

    Thanks for the replies. Tough decision. :beer:

    (EDIT - and they don't come up for sale here in Canada much...)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  9. DocGF

    DocGF Doc

    For what it's worth, when I was 11 years old, the best advice I got from a motorcycle mechanic was that if I was going to ride a motorcycle, I should learn to work on it myself. This philosophy has taught me alot and saved me alot of money over the years. I still send out the tough stuff, but everything else I do myself. Good luck with your decision.
     
  10. sreavis

    sreavis Well-Known Member

    TZ vs Ape

    I've have all of the above (modern TZ, vintage TZ, Aprilia RS and RGV 250). First of all the aprilia and RGV motors are identical (unless you have restricted japan only or hot rod RGV/SP). Starting new (properly rebuilt with new components from a good wrench) you can get up to 3,000 track miles on a new aprilia crank as long as your not wringing its neck every shift. I do a top end every 1000 track miles. The down side is piston kits are $130+ per cylinder and a new crank is now $1800 (or order a suzuki crank from UK for 550 pounds plus shipping). It is difficult to get someone stateside to rebuild aprilia cranks. If you jet fat you don't have to rejet the Ape as long as you run stock airbox. It is a pain in the ass to work on and takes 4X longer to jet or touch the top end than the TZ. Only makes 58hp and is heavier. You can do jetting changes, swap a piston etc in the time it takes to drink a beer on the TZ. As long as your not trying to get 100% out of the TZ there is minimal track/race day maintenence. Handles much more crisp and parts are less expensive. Either choice is fun but just make sure you get a bike that has been well maintained preferably with notes and receipts otherwise you might have a steep learning curve.
     
  11. RDJeff

    RDJeff Well-Known Member

    You're pretty close on the mileage numbers. I recently switched from a '95 RS125 to '93 TZ250, and the costs aren't a whole lot higher. The last time I looked at Accu's site an RS125 top end kit was $300, and a TZ250 kit was $340 (for both cylinders). Tires are a bit more more of course. I think it would make a great track day bike if a person always wanted a GP bike!

     
  12. gpracer15

    gpracer15 Built to Ride

    From what I remember the Honda RS 125 top end (piston, ring, bearing, circlips, orings, base gasket cost me around $160 and a crank was about $275 ish
     
  13. RDJeff

    RDJeff Well-Known Member

    That was before Honda jacked the piston price to over
    $160! Just the piston!:tut:
     
  14. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    True. However, if you're willing to buy a Wossner, Vertex or order the HRC piston from the UK, you can do a top-end for less than $200*. So, they're at least $150 cheaper a top-end rebuild vs a TZ250. The real problem is the bottom-end rebuilds. You have to figure the parts for a crank rebuild (~$600) as well as all the other seals, etc. and the labor of having the crank rebuilt as well as the rest done, have to be at least $1600 (including top-end parts), which is at least $500-600 more than the same rebuild on an RS125. Then you have higher consumption of gas, tires, etc. and you have one expensive TD bike. Also, it's not like you're going to find one for a good price that someone has just done a full rebuild on. If you're lucky you'll get 4-6 TDs out of it before you need to tear it apart and drop $2K to have it fresh.

    *http://shop.ukroadandrace.co.uk/epa...ories/HRCHONDA_RACING_PARTS/Honda_RS125_Parts

    pin - 9.34
    small bearing 7.25
    ring - 12.2
    clips - 1 (x2)
    piston - 95
    base gasket - 2
    ----------------
    £127.79
    -VAT @ 20% (25.558)
    ----------------
    £102.232
    x £/USD = 1.61/1
    ----------------
    $164.60
    + shipping (can't be more than $35)

    edit: Just realized I left out the head o-rings...they aren't much, but figure another $20.
    edit#2: Do people really pay $285 for those rebuild kits from Redline and RSC? Wow. I need to get into that business!
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2011
  15. RDJeff

    RDJeff Well-Known Member

    I didn't know about the Brit part prices, that makes things a bit more reasonable.

    True, the crank work is more on the TZ250. My last rebuild cost me about $900 for parts and labor. They say the crank is good for 3 or 4 rebuilds before it's shagged. There is no arguing that the TZ250 is more expensive to run than the RS125, but it really isn't as much as you'd think. For a track day bike, the maintenance intervals could be stretched a bit, and from what folks are saying, the TZ can be stretched more than the Honda.

    One of my pit buddies rides an RS250. It's a really trick bike, but there are a lot of expensive parts on that one!

    A 250 might be more comfortable to sit on than a 125, something that could be a deal breaker for a bigger fellow.

    In the end, it's what the rider chooses to pay to ride!
     
  16. peter leduc

    peter leduc Agaperacing.com

    TZ part

    My experience with Yamaha TZ parts vs. Honda RS125 parts is that absolutely everything except the pistons is significantly more expensive than the honda equivalent. Chain adjusters on an RS125 = $15, TZ125 = $90. Pistons are the only thing that's cheaper on the Yamaha. If you're going to race at any point in the future, buy the TZ and learn how to tune a real GP bike. If you're always going to be a track day guy, stick with the Aprilia or GSXR. They're both a lot less frustrating, expensive and rewarding.

    MY 0.02
     
  17. got40

    got40 On hiatus...

    Damn I've always wanted a two stroke 250, esp a TZ. I consider a honda but I'd have to set aside the fact I despise HRC.

    But after reading this thread, I think you guys have just talked me out of it. 6 track days and then a $2k motor rebuild? Cripes.
     
  18. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    You should be able to get more than that. You figure ~150/miles a TD, so I replace the ring after every day and replace the top-end every 2 days. So, after 8-10 TDs, you'll need to rebuild the bottom-end.

    2T GP bikes aren't made to be ridden as a TD bike. If you want a decent 2T 250 for the track then get an Ape RS250, Suzuki RGV250, Yamaha TZR250 or a Honda NSR250.
     
  19. nokturnal

    nokturnal Well-Known Member

    The thing for me is that I will only likely ride it half (or a bit more) of the time. I am not selling the gixxer, which is also a track-only ride for me. With the amount of miles I put on the bike, a topend will last me ~1 year, and the bottom ~3 years. That is not too bad... just way more expensive than the Ape. :rolleyes:

    On the down side, I just found out that the bike I am looking at is at the end of it's service life and needs a complete top/bottom end job... the RS has ~400 miles on a complete rebuild.
     
  20. SKETCHY

    SKETCHY Porzio Performance Inc

    cranks are pricey!!!!
     

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