Monticello Monday Sucked!!!

Interesting discussion but I think that I've seen something even more outrageous. I was practicing for an endurance race the next day with one of my partners ( I'm an expert and he's a prov nob) @ Texas World Speedway when I see 5 bikes in the weeds off to my right. The next thing I see is a red flag so I slow down. Then I see the president of the track day org running up the hill towards me and my partner counter direction. He almost collides with my partner who had not seen the red flag & forces him off the track. Back at the pit in/out, my partner and the president are having a screaming match which ends with the president tossing my partner for the day. Later on, he came by our pits, re-instated my partner and apologized. This guy clearly completely overeacted when he heard about the 5 riders off the track and didn't wait long enough for the red flag to be noticed. The 5 riders were uninjured but this guys actions could have easily caused a fatality.

This was the most agregious track day incident I've ever seen and this is why I generally avoid them in favor of all out racing.

 

I'm sorry to hear the guys that attended this event had a bad experience. To be honest, not one track day provider is perfect and from time to time you will get the shitty day. It's definitely shitty cause these track days aren't cheap.

The owners of these organizations need to meet and develop a plan to get the day back under control when these crash sessions start to happen. If they have to start kicking people out, or have no passing in any group the first two rotations? I don't know I'm not the expert but try something. Get things settled.

The thing that irritates me is when someone goes down the first novice or intermediate session. Freaking warm up first man, plus the day goes until 5 pm at least. I'm sorry but that's just stupid. Increase your speed little by little each session.

 

Holy bunch of whiners! It was 1 messy track day.. I've ridden with 5 organizations, and they all do it different, and all do it well.. STT is one of the best orgs I've ever ridden with. They might have a bad day here or there, but guess what, I've been to some crappy nesba days too...

 

I don't actually know Dutch, but a person asking to bump down to ride with their buddies is a common occurrence on the nesba forum. This is not something that nesba allows and some riders do not understand it. In this instance, I really do think that Dutch's comments had nothing to do with you.

 

I have ridden with 6 track day orgs now. I think they all have their good and bad points. The only time I have gone on a track day org's website (obviously this is not a track day org website) was when I thought the organization was straying away from one of their guiding principles.

I do appreciate concerns about track day orgs as I haven't ridden with them all (I have ridden with STT) and like to know the general theme of each organization. Every track day organization has its bad days, and this sounds like a terrible day for STT but it also sounds like they are going to try and correct it.

I try to only ride with groups where you must earn your spot in each respective group (except for beginner, of course), but that doesn't mean that is the ideal organization for everyone. There are complaints in nesba (for example) all the time about not getting bumped into Intermediate or Advanced. I have known more than one rider to change organizations because of that. But, for me, I ride poorly on track when there are a bunch of squirrely riders in Advanced, and I back way off my pace. Others don't mind it as much. So, I am glad there are all kinds of track day organizations out there.

 

After reading your original post I can see how you would think that's not the case. In your case I am betting what happened is that you either bought or re-upped your membership at the time of signing up for the track day. The system will let you chose either B or I in this scenario. Your class is changed in the system to B class. You show up at the track registered as a B rider and show up on all paperwork as a B rider. No one has any record at the track that you used to be an I rider that bumped himself down. That is what I suspect you were dealing with that day but this is only conjecture.

The situation I was referring to in my post is the random rider AT THE EVENT coming up to me asking to ride down a class so he can spend time with his buddies. That shouldnt be done.

 

Why would I address your situation? I dont work for NESBA anymore. Havent for almost two years. Havent been to an event in as long. I suggest you send an email to [email protected] if you still feel like you need to hash this out because, like I stated, I really dont care.

 

Thank you for the clarification. That makes sense. I apologize for my response. The way you wrote what came after seemed to be directly responding to the situation I had brought up. I appreciate you explaining your post.

 

Dude... you told me that you're coming out of retirement to run a "Busa Only" Pocono FUsa day in 2011. Did you change your mind?

 

gray tank, but thats not that important.

 

Well stated, Dutch. Thank you.

from what I understand from speaking to fellow staff, some of the days events had little to do with how we at STT actually run our track days. We can't twist the throttle for people and make them ride safely and when they do crash, there's little that can be done if people stand in an impact zone, throwing their gear on the ground and having a temper tantrum instead of getting behind a barrier when the corner workers direct them to do so. About the only thing that can be done, is to throw a red flag. For the record, in every riders meeting that I have attended, with every trackday org, be it STT, NESBA, REDUC, TPM, Absolute or what have you, every one of them have instructed the attendees to immediately get out of the impact zone if they are able when they crash or the session will be red-flagged. it's hard to hold the trackday org accountable when riders ignore and refuse to follow these instructions.

Another one of the main issues responsible for the delays on that day has to do with how Monticello operates their grid. Before a crash truck can roll to collect a downed bike, the track requires that every rider pit in, and every corner station report in sequence that their section of the track is clear. With something like 14 stations covering the +4 miles of track on Monticello's full course, this can take some time. Also, the crash truck might go 40 mph at the fastest to recover a bike- if the crashed bike happens to be on the back side of the track, guess what, it will take even more time. once the bike has been collected and the subsequent yard sale is cleaned and loaded up, the truck has to make it's way back to the paddock and all of the corner working stations have to report back in sequence once again before the track can go green and the riders can go back on the track. not surprisingly, many sessions ended after one or two laps due to the indiscretion of a small handful of riders who crashed for what ever reason.

as I mentioned previously, the STT Eastern Division Staff is taking a hard look at what happened and we will make changes as needed, to correct our shortcomings. All constructive feedback is welcome. Our business is to make our customers happy at the end of the day and it's hard to take when that doesn't happen. We are committed to learning from mistakes and we will adapt as necessary to ensure that the riders at our events go home happy. I've been at days with other very well run and successful clubs that had similar outcomes. It's easy to say that "so and so" or "such and such" trackday org sucks as the result of such an experience and write off the whole club. The truth is, an epidemic of dumb can and does happen to every trackday club at some time or another. We will do what we can to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Sincerely,
Lance Lau

 

And you are missed....

Dutch gave one of the best Rider's Meetings in the business...

 

What about the major complaint/comments from many people on this forum and STT's forum, in this thread and many others, about how anybody can sign up in Advanced and Advance "postions" aren't earned or regulated?

I have talked to many people IRL and i have seen many comments from people on this forum and others stating how they don't ride with STT anymore because of how anybody can sign up in Advanced and the Advanced group is rarely completely made up of truly Advanced riders.

That issue is the single main complaint in the thread on the STT forum about this particular weekend, but yet that issue continues to get dodged, as it has many times in the past.

I keep hearing about all of the red flags in Advanced, maybe those people didn't need to be in Advanced to begin with. Or maybe those people were involved in incidents with people who had no business in Advanced.

For some reason nobody wants to commit to making any changes about the Advanced group. The issue is always met with comments like "it is fine" or "we don't think there is a problem" but obviously there is a problem.

I have always thought that STT was the best organization available for new riders. The Novice program with STT is excellent, on and off the track. That same focus should be applied to making the Advanced group the best it can be.

.02

 

Chris, I cannot speak for all the regions as we have only attended the Southern events (10 this year). As in any group, there is some variance in skill levels and speed differences in the A group. But I can say I don't think we have attended a single Southern event this year where it warranted any "special" attention. It is not to say there have not been issues, but those issues were dealt with and the day went on. JMO Tdub

 

im with you 100% and have voiced this same opinion. i think we can all agree on the fact that the real issue of why the day went to shit was the individual riders that made poor decisions, whether to sign up in a group they had no business being in, or they tried to be a hero on the warmup laps, or just got in the way of someone who is an advanced rider. being in the advanced group i can tell you first hand that there were way too many people that had no business being there. many who could not hold a line, and if they did try to hold a line it would cross the real line and this creates chaos on the track. but that is where management has to come into play to control or regain control of the situation and manage things. ive spoken to some people of stt offline and i believe they have an interest in improving the system.

and as you suggested stt was always known for being a great org for newbies, but they need to make it better for the advanced guys too, and i had this exact discussion already(offline). hopefully there will be more focus on all groups to make it a better organization overall, and hopefully there will be some oh shit contingency plans for the days that go terribly wrong.

 

As for JGP....

For Novice, the control riders work with & help pace the Novice only.

As for Int & Expert.... race control (and some corner workers) will time some if they "stick out" as being too fast or too slow. They will often ask the control riders to run a few laps with said riders, because you can't rely on lap times alone. The race line is very important when running Expert & most of the time Intermediate also. T3 at JGP is a good example. Intermediate begins to run 25/26's, so bumps up.... only to have the real fast experts nearly shove themselves up his poor azz because he parks it going into T3.

Whether I'm control riding, or riding for myself,.... if I see someone that needs bumped (up or down), I'll let them know the reason(s) why. Safety being the reason 99% of the time. I'll often go out and ride with them to show them lines, etc., or whatever we discussed with them. Most of the time, they're fine with it.

BTW..... one of your ex R6's crashed in T9 @ JGP last Sunday. Rider tucked the front, and I ran over him! EEEK!! We were all okay, thankfully! I just remember that motor pullin me like I was standing still coming outta T2!

 

Can you imagine the riders meeting.

 

No worries. It's all good. :up:

 

We wouldn't be able to see anything by that point Dutch..... we'd all be blinded by all the chrome rolling thru tech!!!!!

 

Chris, thank you for your comments. as I mentioned previously, we will be looking at ways that we can improve the experience. However, I'm not able to comment on what those changes might be until they've been made. Ultimately, that decision is up to people actually calling the shots, Monte, Bonnie and our regional directors. Me, I'm just the cook- I make the BBQ menu, not the rules...