State of the Union Address in one sentence

Love that movie. It really hit home with me and brought back some painful memories. It got me. I've actually slept in laundry rooms with my little brother and sick mom. We had nowhere else to go and no car to take us there. Since I was in high school at the time, I hadn't started working three jobs yet.

I see a huge problem with our society as a whole. The "Haves" have little to no sympathy or compassion for the "Have-Nots". Look at the comments above and in similar threads. Needing govt aid is akin to someone being lazy, stupid, etc. Of course there are people who are abusing the system. There are people abusing almost every system (e.g. wealthy people and unchecked tax fraud). There are loopholes in the system and people are finding them. Why do we condemn the Have-Nots for finding a way to improve their quality of life while saying/doing nothing about the wealthy whose greed is cheating the system out of even more money? With the well-off taking such a hard stance and doing everything they can to distance themselves from the Have-Nots, how can anything other than driving a wedge between the classes?

If you're not familiar with the crab barrel theory, check it out. It explains pretty well why it's tougher for some to get out than others.

Glad to hear it. I agree.

I agree. For how many people is that solution possible though? I commend you on pulling yourself out of the crab barrel but you were at least told that an exit does exist. Not everyone is as fortunate as we were. I know it's hard to look back and think we were fortunate but we were. We're a couple of the lucky ones that had a lot more than just our strong will on our side.

I waffle on this one as I see both sides of the argument.

I hope I'm understanding your question correctly. The Constitution enables the govt. Please read Article 1, Section 8 again. It explains the Powers of Congress, specifically their right to collect money from you to provide for the "general welfare" of the United States.

I'm having a tough time understanding your questions today. Sorry.

 

We're at a difficult time because it's too late to fix it within the system and it's too early to shoot the bastards. Someone much wiser than any of us said that, and it makes perfect sense to what is going on in our country.

Individual freedom and responsibility is what this country was founded on no matter how hard or tough you think you had it. I am going to be blunt about your situation, if you EVER recieved a government handout of ANY kind: You STOLE money from your fellow citizen in order to take care of yourself. If you don't believe my last statement than do me a favor and not pay taxes for a few years and see what happens. That's right, you go to jail for tax evasion, essentially you are arrested at the barrel of a gun. In essense, armed robbery.

We have all struggled at some point in our life and you are not special because you did. And before your rebuttal of me being 'rich,' 'wealthy,' 'white,' or whatever excuse might happen, are you going to payback what you received? Then, like I said prior, it's stealing. For the record, I am none of the attributes listed either, and I hate the people who leverage the system for their benefit on the other side of the scale as well - the super wealthy you speak of. But that's another conversation.

Damian

 

DeeZR6, thanks for the assist. You've proven my points for me. Cheers.

 

Read again, I had to edit some stuff in. And what points did I prove specifically?

 

Yes, it is another conversation. I'm assuming you're asking me "you", not the generic "you". If not, my apologies for answering. Yes, all monies were paid back that needed to be paid back except these damn dirty student loans. They got me for a while longer.

You've proved my points about public perception of those who accept aid. You've proved that people think because they've felt some level of struggle in their life, it's the exact same level of struggle everyone else has felt. You've proved that people need to read the Constitution again, specifically Article 1, Section 8. The government is well within their rights to give the money so why are people (notice the lack of the word citizens) wrong for accepting it?

 

I agree with you that more people need to read and understand our founding documents in order to be more well-informed which will effect a myriad of things. But for the sake of this argument, I will offer a counterpoint: So prior to the Welfare system (as used in contemporary language) being put in place, what happened? Did people just wither and die? Or did they find it in themselves to dig themselves out of the hole they put themselves in or were put in?

Damian

 

Well, I can definitely respect your rough start and can only hope your family's lives have improved since then. My immigrant parents did not have an easy start/life either, may not have been as bad as yours tho.

With that said, and I cant speak of others but scamming the system from either end of the success pool is frustrating.

You cant deny the fact that a lot of conservatives were against TARP when Bush started it and more so when Obama quadrupled the amount. So you cant get more anti-wealthy ppl than that.

Part of the problem here is how entrenched we've all become with our own party belief. I'd be the first to admit that it's a bad thing, and it's getting worse.

I'll check out that crab barrel theory when I get some free time.

 

@DeeZR6: Both. Some took Option A, some took Option B. Some didn't have much of a choice in the matter, regardless of how hard they tried or were willing to work.

@XFBO: I agree 100% and thank you.

 

Are you referring to the phrase concerning general welfare? The context when written is not the context of today. I applaude you for rising above your circumstances and the fact that you have paid back most of it is more than some of that didn't have it as hard will do. Some people have had it easier than you, some more diffcult. That should entitle you to nothing that someone else does not wish to give.

That said, I have no appreciation for people that are so shortsighted that they do not see the benefit to being generous to those in need.

 

I don't consider myself in line either of the two ruling parties of our nation. They both have their strengths and weakness's and I can't seem to understand how either have been in power as long as they have. We have seen time and time again where socialist and facist regimes have failed over and over again, and yet as people we still look at those systems as solutions. Why have we not learned from the pages of history?

Taking something from one man to give to another is stealing, it does not matter if it is Robin Hood or the IRS. Now, if a man chooses to give to another man, that is not stealing, it can be called a number of things from charity to good faith, etc. I am not saying that no one should be willing to give but not being given that option and being forced to give is not right either. Even with the large amount of taxes most of us pay, we, as a nation, still give enormous amounts to private charity in both money and time.

If private charity were more pronouced than government subsidies, then the world would be a much better place. (Cue the ponies and rose petals) Forcing charity has not and will never work. We'll talk when we both retire and social security, medicare, medicaid and the rest of the government run trust programs are all bankrupt and all the money we put into went towards paying off the Federal Reserve or China or whatever else.

Damian

 

General welfare has nothing to do with the redistibution of money from those that made it to those that don't have it. You must appeal to them.

To quote James Madison on the "general welfare" clause, which is originally stated in the Preamble:

As for the other things you are stating. Do you believe that you have the right for government force others in to "sympathy"? Where is that clause in the Constitution?

As for "wealthy" people not paying their taxes...you'll have to explain why only the wealthy pay and not the "not wealthy" pay none. Doesn't the the Constitution state uniformity? So, from what right do you claim to be able to further this constitutional injustice? Isn't their non payment a form of civil disobedience? Or are you claiming a right to another man's life?

 

Because class warfare is a wonderful political tool.

 

Thank you. Yes, that is the phrase to which I'm referring. I understand the context is different. It's yet another thing about the document that's open to such wide interpretation. General welfare can mean anything and everything as defined by the govt, not the people. There's the rub. Classic situation where I don't agree with much of what they're doing but I'll fight for their right to do so. It's this circular logic that leads me to the conclusion I stated earlier: the document needs to be updated and clarified.

Please don't get me started on social security and medicaid. lol

I'm really torn on the rest as my head agrees but heart disagrees. Logically, no man should be forced to do anything in a free society. In a perfect world, we would all take care of each other (direct the ponies and rose petals over here) but we live in a world of greed where people would rather see someone die from cold than offer them a handout.

I have to respectfully disagree here. The govt has the right to require you to give them money. They have the right to spend it on whatever they feel provides for the general welfare of the country. If this includes taking it out of your pocket and handing it directly to the person standing next to you, then they're within their rights to do so (as I read the statement). No man should be forced (see above). I really can't speak for the necessity of tax brackets other than to reference the general welfare clause. It needs to be changed and clarified but until it does, it stands.

 

Tax brackets = class warfare. There is not another good reason for it to be in place other than that. The government can easily make more money using other methods for taxation. They chose the bracketed system because it can help win votes during elections.

Damian

 

Well...

Your interpretation of "general welfare" to being unlimited is out of bounds. There is importance in context. The section you are referring about general welfare is an introduction to the limited powers that follow and not the granting of unlimited power.

Back to Madison on this very issue in the Constitution...

What specific rights do you believe that you'd like to subjectively take away from your children under your ideology of updating and clarifying?

 

@DeeZR6: Great point! +1

@Super Dave: Seriously man, we gotta work on the way you phrase your questions. They're always extremely loaded.

 

They may be loaded but it does not change the question. May be tough to look at it that way, but it is precisely what we are doing to our country.

Damian

 

Do you recognize the contradiction? The greed is in government. They don't make anything. Men do with their work. Government taking it from them, which is an act of force, you don't give it, it is removed from you by threat, leaves them as the one's victimized and in the cold to die.

 

Hookers and blow?...