Future Old Racer Seeks Advise

I am planning to race some next season. I wll be 40 in June. I originally had planned to run my '02 GSXR 600 in CORC. I have been told to run Solo 20s, and even run 600 Novice. I am up for any suggestions (classes, bike set-up, do's and don'ts). I have attended "CLASS" and "STAR", along with additional track days. I am also a Rider Education Instructor (MSF) for SC. I have no dreams of winning championships, just having fun!

 

There are eight classes you can run if your bike is in SS trim at SE regionals. BSS, BSB, CSS, CSB, F1, CORC, MW & HW solo 20's. Run as many classes as you want to or can afford. CSS & CSB probably have the largest grids with BSB & F1 the smallest. Don't worry about grid size though it doesn't matter after turn 1.

See Mike or Max @ Traxxion for set-up, you definetly want to get your forks done. Rear shock is nice but forks will make a bigger difference so if you are limited,($$) do your forks first. Make sure you get the ride height as high as you can with the stock shock though, will really help the bike turn.

Do's: Go to Talladega in February even if you are not able to race. See what goes on so you have somewhat a clue when you do race. Ask lots of questions.

Don'ts: Listen to any advice Fetsko gives you.

 

Yo---its Crusty Old Racers Class---- not Ugly Old Telphonica Racers with bad ankles class!!!!

 

Nothing else needs to be said.

 

Forget the MSF training

MSF training is wrong and even dangerous for sportbikes. Hopefully you don't believe, as MSF teaches, for instance, that 30% of a bike's braking power comes from the rear!

 

\

You got that right!!!!!!

 

What's this 'old' business. I'm 48 and my endurance partner is 54! We manage to survive running endurance in the Texas and Oklahoma summer heat. If you havn't set your GSXR up for the track yet you might want to think seriously about buying an existing racebike. It will prove to be MUCH more cost effective. It will open up some other choices such as the SV 650. You may find that some of the 600 novices run some strange and unpredictable lines. Whatever you do, focus on developing your fitness and heat tolerance. Eat plenty of Ibuprofen on race day. Good luck, you'll love it!

BTW, I'm an MSF instructor (and committed to rider education) and I find that there's not much overlap between MSF skills and racing skills.

 

That happens in all novice classes.

 

just get the bike set up and go ride have fun it does not matter where you finish as long as you had the blast of your life. I am a semi old guy and can hang with them for a few turns and watch them ride off in the sun but still have a blast in every turn

 

Screw you hippie!

And you too SlowBoyRacer15

 

Is that the same advice you give the team riders?

 

Look forward to racing with ya I turned 40 2 months ago. This will be my 2nd year of racing. I raced 600SS, 600SB & 750SS last year, also did Solo 20's. This year I will race the CORC too.

My bike is a '01 GSXR600, as mentioned earlier get the forks tended to (Traxxion ) Penske shock works well on the back too

See ya at the line

 

get in shape!

There are plenty of guys that can help you with bike setup, so I'll skip that. But get your body ready too. I'm 42 and do pretty darn good for an old man. Do some jogging or bicycling, or better yet some dirt bike thrashing.

 

Re: get in shape!

ouch, that can be painful to us old folk I'm nursing a severely jammed wrist with a possible hand bone fracture today from doing just that (dirt bike thrashing) this past weekend.

DRZ took me out through a few small pine trees & damn near killed me I hope my hand/wrist is all healed up in 5 weeks for the TGPR round or else I'll have to sit it out.

Darn dirtbikes gotta say this, the dirtbike will either whip you or whip you into shape.

 

Re: Forget the MSF training

You can't possibly be serious. If the back brake is "dangerous" why is it there. As an MSF Instructor in the past and Rider Coach presently, I can tell you that the MSF does not "teach" that 70% front/30% rear as you misquote. The old student work book doesn't mention any %. My new material is at work, but if memory serves (less and less all the time) it is not in the new curriculum either. If taught properly (and that really is the rub isn't it?) there is absolutely ZERO in the old or new course that is dangerous on any bike. PERIOD. One of two things is happening here, you had a poor instructor (possible) or you came into it with a closed mind ($10.00 you were required by the military). Which is it?

And of course, Nicky, Ben, and Kurtis are all idiots (well Kurtis maybe!)

 

MSF

I challenged MSF about the 70%-30%, as you can plainly see in my cut and paste in the next post.

Here are excerpts from the letter they wrote back initially defending their 70% ratio. the letter was signed Elisabeth Piper, Director, Corporate Affairs The Motorcycle Safety Foundation

"In both RiderCourses, however, MSF does advocate using both brakes to stop as a rider will achieve maximum stopping power only by applying full application of both front and rear brakes without skidding. This is based upon two research reports. The first is the 1981 Hurt Study (Univ. of Southern California) that noted the propensity of crash-involved riders to be relying solely upon the rear-brake for all of their stopping power. The second is the 1985 Neil Tolhurst study (Northern Illinois Univ.) that noted that the shortest stopping distances occurred with full application of both the rear and front brakes."

"But since 70 to 75% of your stopping power is not 100%, 100% stopping power is achieved through front and rear brake usage together. From that perspective, using both brakes truly gives a rider a performance advantage in that it stops more quickly."

Note they are relying on 1981 and 1985 test data, when the NHTSA did a test in spring of this year which contradicted this older data.

 

Straight from the MSF-USA.org website:

Front brake

The front brake provides around 70% of the stopping power for your motorcycle. To stop, the hands and feet work together in a coordinated and smooth fashion. Squeeze the clutch and the front brake lever while pressing on the rear brake pedal and downshifting to first gear.

So, like I said, certain aspects of MSF teaching are dangerous when applied to modern sportbikes.

 

I don't know you from Adam so I won't flame away as hard as I'm inclined too. If you believe that 100% of your braking comes from the front brake you are simply wrong. You are the first person I've heard knock the Hurt Study, although you are somewhat correct in stating it is dated, but not out-dated. In fact the MSF and more specifically the AMA are lobbying Congress for funding of a newer and more comprehensive study.

I also believe you are misinterpreting what the emails you received from the MSF are saying. I don't think "about 70%" is a gross mistatement of fact. I personally think it is closer to 80%, but "about" 70% is close enough for me. If you are only using your front brake, it is simple physics to state you are not braking with 100% of your bike's stopping potential. I ABSOLUTELY guarantee that I can stop in a shorter distance ON YOUR MOTORCYCLE than you can if I use both while you only use the front. This is not disputeable. I will say however that off-line from the MSF course I discourage beginners from using the back break because it requires much more finess and skill to use correctly. (maybe a couple reasons you prefer not to?)

The new curriculum is quite different from the old, and if you haven't taken it in the past year, you haven't seen the new course. The instructor book contains the same % you quote from the site, but more importantly the new student handbook contains only the phrase "most of the braking force comes from the front brake". An absolutely acceptable statistic.

So again, NO PART OF THE MSF COURSE CONTAINS ANY INFO THAT IS DANGEROUS . I submit that any course that allows you to ride a motorcycle in a controlled environment cannot be a bad thing.

Anyway, this is getting old real fast, keep only using your front brake, and if we meet on the track I'll wave to you after I out-brake you Then again, it sounds like you already have al the answers so that factory ride is just around the corner, no?

Just my $1.50's worth.

 

Oh yeah, forgot to respond to the NHSTA portion of your post. Two things:

1st, show me the excerpt and include all the context, not just one sentence, and maybe you can change my mind (since obviously I'm not going to change yours)

2nd, as a government employee I can tell you with absolute certainty (although not a straight face) believe everything the government tells you. They always have your best interest in mind and never have a hidden agenda.

 

Tim,

I'm not sure why you would flame me, I certainly have not flamed you. If my flaming of MSF course material causes you personal offense, then I apologize. My intent with my course of action is to better MSF teaching, not minimize the good MSF does for the beginning street rider. It was you who challenged me by saying MSF does not teach 70-30, so I clearly show that it is in the materials.

I WILL write a comprehensive position paper on the subject when my current project is over. It is disapponting MSF stuck by their dated teaching after my first several e-mails. Part of the reason for the delay is I'm waiting to get a full report on the Spring 2002 test from the NHTSA, as the excerpts I've provided are the only ones I have access to.

My comments on your points.

I never attacked the HURT report, only MSF "Official" interpretation. The HURT report (to my once read knowledge, when i do the full position paper I'll have studied it completely) does not say anything about 70%-30%, only that in their analysis many motorcycle crashes are caused by mis-use of the brakes by sole use of the rear. In other words, it points riders to learn to use the front brake. That's a good thing.

My point to MSF is the SAME THING as what you tell your students "I will say however that off-line from the MSF course I discourage beginners from using the back break because it requires much more finess and skill to use correctly. (maybe a couple reasons you prefer not to?) " THIS IS THE DANGEROUS PART OF THEIR TEACHINGS!

There are many, many racers who do not use the rear brake. Many, many that do. I'm not going to debate the merits of skilled and precise usage of the back brake in a racing situation, as this is not the point of my argument. But, since you brought it up, let me know when you enter a race stateside and I'll be happy to watch you sail past the turn when you try to out-brake me

As to your lectures on Goverment and Politics, I deal with those every day at the Executive level and have a degree in Economics which is 90% statistical analysis. Thanks for your concern on my background. FYI, the NHTSA report is, I believe, an attempt to require LBS and anti-lock brakes on all motorcycles for proposed 2004-5 legislation. That doesn't mean the raw braking data that went into the test can't be interpreted to come up with better numbers than "70/30"