Talking to the Enemy

FROM THE LINKED ARTICLE: "If a President Obama were to meet with President Ahmadinejad, it would send a signal to the Iranian people that they are not isolated but that the rest of the world has come to respect them and to have to deal with them.


The leading argument for toppling the current regime will have been fatally undermined. But if the West sustains a policy of economic sanctions, curbs on foreign investment, and diplomatic isolation, the Iranian regime’s days are numbered."

Eh ... deja vous? Or as another saying goes: "been there, done that".

 

Here's the plan: Let's invade Iran! We'll be greeted as liberators! We'll transform the place into a beacon of democracy for all of middle east (except those whom we like) to follow.

 

"No people in history have ever survived, who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies"

-Dean Acheson

 

Dude, politics is a game between rich people. I doubt the president of Iran loses any sleep over Israel, other than waiting for Mossad to take him out.

Next you're going to tell me the frat boy in the White House *really* cares about spreading freedom and democracy?

I doubt it's really that personal, probably a money game for the most part. Selling it to the voters and people who go get shot is another story.

Diplomacy is a good idea IMO, certainly can't hurt. Legitimizing "regimes" (a fun word) is a copout. You could just as easily say it would convince the people that the USA isn't bullying them. By refusing to talk one might argue that it's legitimizing the arguments against us. And so goes the circular argument.

 

Cute quote :up: ...there certainly are scenarios in which it's actually applicable.
However, implying that the survival of the world's only superpower is threatened by Iran is a bit silly don't you think? If this is not what you were saying then my sincere apologies.

 

Agreed!

Example is the Palestinians. " All we want is peace" say the Zionists "As long as we can have your land and suppress your people into submission everything will be OK. "Why don't you aquiesce to this very reasonable request?"

And we support and fund the oppressor to our shame

 

Not Iran specifically but where does it end? You go to Iran and try to be politically correct, next you're politically correct to North Korea, then Cuba, then who know's who's next. Before too long, you're the town bicycle...everybody gets a ride.

Sometimes you have to make tough decisions and be a dick. Our country gained our independence by making tough decisions being a dick...a think a lot of people forgot that.

 

I almost started a thread on this when the story broke ages ago but now I can hide my opinions buried deep in someone else's thread.

I just want to say how ridiculous I think it is for us to hear how this neocon is so much like Reagan or how that neocon is so much more Reaganish than the other fake conservative when a month later they're all lining up to bash the likely opponent for making statements about meeting with "our enemies" to talk sans pre-condition.

Reagan met with our biggest enemy and defeated him without firing a shot (that is public record anyway). I suppose it's a good thing he was willing to meet with Mr. Birthmark .. er ..Gorbechev and meet with him relatively often. Reagan understood that if you want something you must work for it and be patient. Now attemting the same logic gets you nothing but a hailstorm of insults and inuendo and attacks on your patriotism.

But the so called Conservative playbook now says to isolate and ignore your enemies. 5th grade victim of the bully tactics right there. I suppose for some recent examples of how that foreign policy has been successful, we can look at the three big enemies W warned us about way back when.. We ignored two of the three members of the Axis of Evil and just look at them now; one has nukes to go with his god complex and the other will have nukes pretty much any time now. The only harmless one is now one enormous amusement park for jihadists and to my constant amazement, it's perfectly acceptable to a lot of Americans. Reagan is probably waiting at the pearly gates to deliver several crippling beat-downs to a few "conservatives."

Talking to your enemies has many positive side effects.

What's the harm? Perhaps your advisors don't actually know everything. Examples listed above.
You will be seen as the one truly seeking peace in the eyes of the entire world; a reputation now only a memory.
If you really are as powerful as you say you are, a little humility cannot possibly be detrimental, but endearing. Especially to the poor and disenfranchised who get their news from state extremely biased sources and don't know we are honorable people

Telling Iran what to do or what not to do is a useless jesture. We already don't deal with them at all. What's to lose (if you're Iran)? I'm sure some of you are thinking of examples of how it's such a bad idea right now but the good outweighs any bad you can fathom. How dumb are you going to look if President Obama comes back from his first or third visit to Iran with a massive oil deal? Perhaps the pressure should be increased on Israel. Let's be real for a minute. The Golan Heights is Syrian, but Israel occupies it. They are in violation of international law. No different than Iraq occupying Kuwait. This post is already too long, so I won't talk about Palestine. Most people just have no idea how bad it is.. That is, they don't know just how bad the Israelis treat them. We would fire rockets too if it were somehow us in that situation.

 

Shut up already, you're making too much sense

 

You can't possibly compare Mikhail Gorbachev to Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong Il...

 

What kind of 3rd grade history is this? Tough decisions and being a dick? American patriots resented occupation and exploitation by a powerful overseas empire. I hope the irony isn't totally lost.

And Cuba? What a threat to world peace, lol. Yeah, I know, they're the "C" word.

 

Todd, good post but you forgot to mention Nixon and China. Most of you folks are too young (except for that Hippie Panther) to remember, but that was and still is a huge deal. China coulda gone the looney route that North Korea did. :wow:

Yeah, I guess we're not supposed to bring up Nixon cuz he was evil because he lied to the American people.

 

I got the irony...tell those Iraqis to stand up for themselves and send us home. I think just about everyone over there would be glad to go home to their families...until then I guess we'll just have to "occupy and exploit".

 

We had no greater enemy than Russia. Our leaders met with theirs. People were oppressed before, they aren't now. perfect example

 

No, but Uncle Joe Stalin would be welcome in that group.

 

Yeah, I wonder where Stalin would place in the all time killer of your own people list? First?

 

I don't know. How many deaths can you pin on W? Top ten for sure.

 

If it came down to a battle between the US and Iran, or any other country, you would probably be correct, however, Iran is in a position to do some serious harm to ours, and the world's, economic health. When you start threatening our way of life here in the US, people panic.

 

Agreed on that one...

Gorby you could at least reason with.

When Ahmadinejad says things like this "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,” It makes me think we may not be able to negotiate anything with him.

This is another one of my favorite quotes from crazy Mahmoud, " “In Iran we don’t have homosexuals like in your country.”