Animals for research: Opinions?

If someone watches a car skid off the road in winter they may figure out that ice is dangerous for motorcycle riders. In the same way, scientists are able to gain useful information by factoring in the known differences between test animals and humans.

A lot of testing helps guide basic research, which is what leads to life-saving discoveries such as the vaccines for rabies, polio, and TB. Shouldn't you feel guilty using that bunny to fill your stomach when it could potentially be helping save millions of lives?

 

I don't feel bad for putting fish on my plate. However I might feel a bit guilty testing eyeliner on one.

 

As soon as you realize how limited your knowledge of animal research is you might realize how important animal research is. I don't mean that as a slam. Just pointing out that there is a vast amount of research done for thousands of drugs and diseases. Chimps are not the most widely used animal in research. The examples you are talking about aren't even a drop in the bucket to what research is going on.

The primate study I mentioned at a lab we work at is a huge drug that is close to getting it's approval and has involved many millions of dollars in research for that one drug and there are about a half dozen animals involved in that study.

You stating that they are unnecessary is just not a good statement for someone with little knowledge of what is going on. You can't expect the Humane Society to be unbiased. Or PETA or any of those organizations.

There are so many good drugs out there right now that wouldn't exist if it weren't for animal studies. They do not mistreat the animals. Yes they do some harsh stuff to some of them but it is in the name of science.

You are never going to find enough unbiased information on the internet to show how important it is. The information on research is too well guarded because of patents and the race to the next great cure for cancer, AIDS, etc.

 

You should check into the polio vaccine... specifically in regards to contamination from a particular virus carried by the simians that it was derived from. Bad science.

 

Okay so there has been some bad science with chimps. The vaccine nearly wiped out polio so something worked.

You are using two instances to condemn the whole practice.

 

OK, I am no activist but that sounded just like those idiots (and I am absolutely not saying you are one) on TV who put something sharp into an animal and say with a straight face that it is perfectly painless for the animal and it did not suffer. I have yet to hear confirmation from any of the animals.

Your definition of mistreatment might be a little different than the one used by the chimp.

 

Eliminating polio was bad science?

 

With Rumsfeld just gone, things are kind of in flux.

 

I said they do some harsh shit to them but it's in the name of science. They don't just hurt them or treat them bad for shits and grins.

They do put some animals through some really bad stuff. Denying that is just dellusional.

When you are researching a new pain medicine someone has to be put in pain for the tests. We've offered to whack the shit out of some of the strange scientists but their safety departments won't let us.

The animals are an expensive investment so they are cared for fairly well... based on the studies they are in. The new diet pills/steroids are tested on a bunch of muscled up hamsters living in the varmit gym making eyes at the rabbits there for the tanning bed studies.

 

I'm with RCJohn on this one.
Let me start with first telling you what I tell everyone who is against using animals for medical research. TALK TO THE FDA/GOVERNMENT. There are no drugs, vaccines, or medical treatments that are available to you now that haven't been tested on animals at some point because you have to go through an in vivo animal study to get FDA approval.
In order for ANY drug or vaccine that will be used on humans to be approved, it MUST go through an animal phase. There is NO way around this, not with cultured cells, cultured organs, or even humans. Cultured cells and organs do not make a complete in vivo system by the way.
Are animal models ideal? No, but they are the only way at this point to move forward with many kinds of research. Is all research going on in animals good science? No: but there are lots of legitimate and valuable studies being conducted. There are many mice knock-out or transgenic models that can give us good models for certain types of cancer and diseases. As you know, mice reproduce very well- so in order to get a statistical number of 'cases' it doesn't take a lot. If we were to go to a human only model then it would take decades to get the numbers needed.
As far as abuse/mistreatment of animals: The regulations and rules around doing animal research pretty much insure that these animals are treated better than many household pets.
I hope that one day, there will be no need for animal models but at this point in time there is no alternative.

 

Yes, and that vaccine was cultured in a dish and not a rat's ass or a spider monkey.

 

You can't read.

 

Hey what about testing on people that are in pain. Explain the potential risks, and offer the treatment for free. That should help cut the cost of those expensive animals. I'd guess the human subjects might even have useful verbal input. "Still hurt John?", "Not as bad, but my fingers are tingly".

 

Not every drug works or gets approved but with your flawed ignorance none would get approved.

 

You should expect that from somebody with "knowledge as limited as mine" Mr Pasteur. If it wasn't for my flawed ignorance I'd have called you Jonas.

 

And it sounds to me like you are saying so long as it is done in the name of science, the animal is not mistreated. Well, I beg to differ. I am not saying I am against animal testing. It sucks, but the stuff has to be tested on somebody and animals are the second candidate on my list after rapists and murderers. However, I am not fooling myself or trying to appease my conscience by pretending the labs are so cozy and comfortable that the animals would choose to stay there if given the choice.

 

I think flawed ignorance is good. Certainly better than perfect ignorance.

 

Shouldn't we ought to expand this to include the vegetable rights activists?

 

How many other countries world wide use Chimps and other upper primates in medical research and non pharmaceutical testing?

Now, down the other path... Non-pharmaceutical testing on animals.
Bullcrap. 100% bullcrap. Man I feel preachy.