Studded Ice tires

Does anyone have any info on finding studded ice tires that will fit a sportbike ? I want to try some ice riding since it looks like it would be a blast but I havent been able to find any info on the tires themselves.

I know it is normally done on dirtbikes, but there are pictures of people doing it with sportbikes.

I am thinking something along these lines:



Any ideas?

Thanks! :P

 

You should call Jeff Fredette.

http://www.frpoffroad.com/

I bought a set of excellent used ice tres from my Ascot that were made by a guy named Biron. However I got them second hand so I don't have contact info.

There was a guy in Wisconsin that rode around on a studded R1. He lost screws out of the rear tire regularly. But he would beat all the snowmobiles drag racing.

Ice tires look easy to make. But a lot goes into tuning the angles of the screws properly. That's why I got some made by a pro.

 

It might not be what you think.
The only time you get real good grip on the ice is when it's completely clear. A half inch of snow and you're sliding around. If you plow an oval clear and start runnig laps, it'll only be a few minutes before you lose grip due to the ice you shred while riding and put on the track.
I've thought about trying to do the same thing.
The spikes in that picture won't work well, I don't think. You'll want to use kold kutters. I think those would tear out with high horsepower or high lateral force.
The other thing to keep in mind is how to mount them. With the kold kutters the tires are easier to mount with the studs (whole tire) wrapped in something. If the studs are too long, you'll have a hell of a time. Also, I think you need to have a tire and rim that accept a tube. Otherwise, you'll have to caulk or seal somehow each hole.
I'm thinking, if you're really serious, you might want to get a set of wheels from an ice racer and spend the time making spacers and modifying your axles and rear brake (don't bother with the front brakes) to do it.

 

Why the hell would someone stud a sportbike to dragrace in a straight line? And who where the dipshits on the snowmobiles? I've seen near stock sleds run 8 second quarter mile times. Any studded 600 sled would pull all over an R1. The sled would have 10 times more studs contacting the ground, and if the R1 hooked up at all, it's limited by it's tendacy to wheelie. ( I guess unless it had a wheelie bar)

 

Looks like they hook up pretty good to me ..





I already sent Fredette an email so we'll see what he says.

 

Calm down. All I know is what I heard from my friends about this guy.

 

8sec quarters,lol - not quite. i have raced sleds before on my bike both stock and done up ones - and 8sec is far off. more like 10s for a fast sled and 11-12s or higher for a stock sled.

 

You can laugh out loud all you want.
I have a time sheets from the dragstrip.
In the fall of 2001 when I first bought my Gixxer1000, when I got to the end of my first rear tire I took it to the local drag strip on a Wednesday test and tune to finish off the rear tire. My best time was 10.50, totally stock. Not to impressive, but it was only my third (and last) time at a dragstrip. There were some fast cars there with big slicks running low 9s. There were 2 sleds there running sub 8 second times. And a few others running in the 8s and 9s. The sleds never got beat all night by any of the muscle cars there.
Keep laughing, I'd scan in the timeslip but it doesn't tell you what type of vehicle broke the light beam.

And, yes, Ice tires hook up awesome. But I'm just saying that they are dissapointing once there is some snow on the ice. And it builds up quickly.
I've tried it:
http://www.nikracing.com/Gallery/ICE/ice.html

Theres a reason why ice racers use the "leg-out" style that they do. On clean ice the grip is probably more consitant, and just as good as on pavement. But once the ice starts getting torn up, it changes widly. It's like racing on a half dry track with water puddles mid-corner that you can't avoid, and the back to completely dry. Unless you have a team of plow trucks at your disposal, or you're lucky enough to get out on the ice in early winter before the first snow, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Once the bike starts to really push, and the wheels slide several feet, I think that for most mortals, the 'dirttrack' style bike and riding position is much better and ends up making you faster and is more fun.
I'm not trying to be a smart-ass. I have a CR500 ice bike, and I took hockey shin-pads and thought that I could be faster using a knee-draggin street style, or supermotard style (ala- Yates) approach. It's probably possible, but a guy would have to probably be as skilled as Yates to pull it off and have any fun.

 

an 8sec sled is not near stock - far far far from it!

 

8 second sled !!!! You're talkin super heavy modified sled man ! I should know, a few friends of mine have some, and they are DONE !!! As a matter of fact, one of the fastest sleds ever is barely in the 7 second range, and I'm talking about a 500 hp RX-1 turbo and lots of boost to say the least. A very fast stock sled (with clutching and gears, piped and jetted properly, and with race fuel) would be in the high 9 to low 10 second range, (not quite stock anymore IMO) and that's here in Nova Scotia, Canada @ sea level, not to mention of course, being driven by a very good racer ! Stock 8 second sled.... .....you sound just like all the local keyboard racers around here...

 

Well now I'm curious. Maybe I was lied to at the track. These guys were running cats (thundercats?) I don't know what size sled that it, but it seems like I remember them being at least 1000cc, maybe bigger? And they were 2 strokes that were piped and tuned. So probably twice the horesepower of a liter bike right? At similiar weight? It didn't seem that far fetched to me.

At any rate, I don't know what you guys are all bunged up about. endo600 wanted the scoop on ice-racing a sportbike, and andy342 is saying that a high end sportbike is beating all of the sleds, on the sled's turf. The numbers your talking about don't even support that. You're saying a fairly stock sled will run high nines. And all you have to do is squeeze the grip. How much hassle would a guy have to go thru and how awesome would he have to be at launching a bike to get into the nines on the ice? I'm sorry if I offended your unbeatable R1, but the professional magazine test riders have to work to get into the nines on pavement.

 

the tire previosly posted appears to be from these guys...they say somewhere that their icetires are a proprietary set-up and blahblahblah.
http://www.iceroadracing.net/

as for the track turning to shit after you tear up the ice...well, check out the vids...rightclick and save...:up:

 

i dont think you offended his "unbeatable" R1 lol, since he has a fairly quick sled as well.

 

Ya know what....
I saw one shot of one guy who had his ass way off the edge of his seat, knee down as far as he could get it, bike moving all over, and it was still 6 inches off the surface of the ice. And there were only 2 bikes running laps to tear up the ice.
I must be completely nuts. You guys should stud up a couple of sportbikes and go win every snow cross, snowmobile race, and regular motorcycle ice race against the dirtbikes, and then go to the ice-drags and win those as well. You'd be millionaires in the first Michigan winter with only a 20 grand invested in bikes, and a few hundred more in tires. I appoligize. Sportbikes with studded tires are the ticket.

 

I never said that I expected them to have the best grip in the world ... all I said was it looks like they are pretty well hooked up, even with the track torn up a bit.

and the goal is to have fun and learn a little bit about controling the slide of the bike, while on a nice flat open area with nothing to slide into if you go down.

actually more that that, its just something to do during the winter when riding on the track isnt an option. I may never find a way to do it, but who knows.

 

Endo, if the goal is to have fun you will. I think I started down the exact same path. I had Hawk GT that I was going to stud and then I found a CR500 that was already a dedicated ice bike for $2000 with tires (that were set up by a national champ) and I figured I'd never get the Hawk "right" for $2000.
They do hook up very well. But just be aware that it's different grip. I don't know the nuances of ice racing, but I can tell you the things that a beginner would need to know.
The grip is dictated by the studs. How sharp they are and the orientation. It's not as big a secret as some people would have you believe. All of the studs are the same, they look like the sharpened head of a sheet metal screw. The direction of the slot slips, the direction perpendicular grips. So you put the "drivers" (slot perp to bike travel) so that they push you forward on the flat part of the tire, and the "savers" (slot parallel to bike travle) on the edge so they protect you from falling. I'm in Saginaw and I have a tire that was set up by the guy who's supposed to be the best in the business for a guy named Mark Chesa. It may have taken a lot of development, but it's simple to copy.
On street, you have coefficient of static friction, and dynamic friction. Which means that you get better grip when the tire isn't slipping. On ice, those coefficients are much much closer together because it's not really friction, it's the mechanical shear strength of the ice tearing. At least that's what it feels like. It's tough to high-side an ice bike. (realatively!) You can be mid corner, the bike can start to move, you can whack the throttle open and rear end moves very progressively. And when you let off the gas, it comes back real easy.

What's nice too, is like you said, if you find an open lake either before the first snow, or after a strong wind, and you can just start turning a circle and keep tightening up the radius until you're leaned so far that you crash. And then you slide for what seems like forever!

What's also dissapointing about ice riding though, is the lack of organization. You really have to know people to get involved. There is a large group of guys in the Flint area who ride. The best spots are private ponds. But the best public spot is probably Ross Lake in Beaverton on Saturday mornings. I know of a few others in Saginaw, Gladwin, Clare, Flint and Port Huron.
I also have all of the contacts for the clubs who do this stuff (ex: valley trail riders), the places to find the bikes (ex: flattrack.com), and who sets them up the best (ex: Bay Cylce in Bay City). You can come look at my bike or tires in Saginaw anytime, just let me know. My stuff is old, but it's good for getting started. I'd consider selling the bike, my spare studded tire, and I even have brand new box full of the latest model of Kold Kutters.

The biggest disapointment, by far, is if you enjoy it you'll find that opportunities to ride are extremely rare in Michigan. It gets dark at 6 pm, and it takes an hour to get to any lake and get all of your gear unloaded. So you have to go on Saturday or Sunday morning if you work. And there are only 2 or 3 weekends a winter that you can do it where you won't need to have a plow truck with you.

PM me and I'll get you my phone number if you want it. If you're expecting a bike that's faster than a sled though, you're talking to the wrong guy. I honestly don't know how to do that, even if I'm all wet about how fast I remember the sleds being at the drag strip. There were times when sleds came to the pond I was on and blew me away.

 

Thansk for the info ... I am looking to have fun, but ideally I'd like to do it on the bike I will be riding durring the summer for road racing. As much fun as I'm sure it'd be to ride a dirtbike as an ice bike, I'd rather do it on a sport bike. I dont really have a good reason other than that I'm really not into the dirtbike style of riding anymore, and sportbikes are my obession.

If I can't find someone to make a set of tires for my bike, I will likely try to do it myself.

Fortunatley (or unfortunatley depending on how you look at it) I am a college student. I usually try to schedule my classes for 3 days a week and work the other 3-4 days. My job is pretty seasonal (I work at a bicycle shop) so I can easily get time off when I want it during the winter.

Thanks again for the info and I will likely be in touch. Even if I can find someone to build me some tires, I may opt to try it myself. Half the fun is building it up anyways, right?

 

If it were me, and I was set on doing it with a sport bike, I'd probably:
Still use a dirtbike wheel and tire in the rear. They have studs, which are much much thicker for the screws to bite into. I'd use Kold Kutters. The dirtbike wheel will be narrow enough to fit into the swingarm. A regular tire with studs might be to wide and tear up your swingarm. And the dirtbike wheel will work with a tube. I think you need a tubed tire for this.
Protection:
You: Make sure the wheels have guards and the front tire has a fender that goes at least 180 degrees around it. Those studs will cut a limb off if you got it caught between say the rear tire and the swingarm or the front tire and the back of the forks.
Bike: Find a way to make sure that once the bike is down that the tires can NOT touch the ice. The bike will slide fast once it's down and it won't loose speed like frame savers on asphalt. It'll take a while to slow down. If the studs catch the ice you're going to watch the bike flip like you've never seen. It happened once to my CR and tore up the front end. I'd try long swingarm spools and some type of equivilent on the front axle to keep those wheels off of the ice.

 

well .. I did a little digging (I'm not a snow mobiler) and realized tha the studs on the picured tire above are just snow mobile studs.

SO.. the plans go forward..

 

Here's a link to snowmobile studs from when I first started getting into ice biking. They are extremely expensive compared to Kold Kutters which can be had for $65-95 per 1000 depending on the length required. Consider that you can have up to 200-300 per dirtbike tire it's easy to see how the snowmobile studs can get expensive, not to mention how difficult they will be to install compared to just screwing into the outside of the knob. I'm not trying to dissuade you, just pointing out what I have already learned. I ended up studding up a TTR-125 that I use for the winters. One of the guys that I ride with, studded up his F2 and said it didn't work too well. I think he said it felt too heavy to turn easily and he didn't trust the side grip. The big thing to me is there's too many expensive parts on a sportbike to break when you crash vs. the little pit bike-types that love the abuse. That's my 2 cents, let us know how it works out for you.