Hey, just looking for a bit of advice. I've been doing track days for a few years and I've recently got the bug to go racing. I attended the Ed Bargy racing school in preparation, and other than that I've just been spinning laps at the track. I want to get more methodical in my training. I currently ride a Kawi 636 that was raced by the previous owner and has all the bells and whistles. I know that I need to start focusing on improving corner entry speed and trail braking as these are areas I suck. My question is, should I stay on my 636 and just keep practicing, or transition to a smaller bike to develop these skills at slower speeds? Or is there no benefit at all to downsizing at this point? I would likely downsize to a Ninja 400. Thanks.
You'll get people on both sides of this fence. Personally, I did a similar path as you, doing TDs on my 675 for a couple years then getting to racing. I'm sure there's something to learning some skills on a small bike, but I love riding what I have. IMO, you have a race ready bike and years of experience on it. I'd ride what you have.
You need a structured cirriculum like a Champ or Ken Hill school. Why? Because they give you the actual fundamentals to learn then you wont waste time at a track day circulating vs using each session to work on 1 or 2 things per then trying to put them all together. You get actual reference material and a score sheet so you can write your thoughts in after each session as well as tire pressures, gearing, weather, data notes, etc. You can also look at a track map and mark each corner with what gear you are in, entry & exit apex, etc. Plus he offers a wealth of info on his 88+ podcasts that might just make what he covers in the course... click.
Go for the 400. I've raced everything from a 250-750 (including various older 636s) in the last 20 years and the 400 is a blast to ride and has helped with corner speed the most. Plus tires last a bit longer than the 600.
I coach for STT I have a 300 mainly for coaching but it is a fun bike you learn alot about corner speed and shifting. I also have a 636 which i chose to start racing in superstock and superbike c in north central theres more 600's then 400's. Tires last forever on the little bike it also requires a lot of tucking in a type of straight to get fast. so it has improved my body postion. My vote keep both
Private coaching is the fastest way to learn. Can you afford to buy another bike and pay for a coach?
Both, if you can afford it. I had developed bad corner habits on my S1000RR, and took the advice to club race Ninja 250s. The intro to racing on the Ninja was awesome and I learned so much about cornering. The improvements to my riding translated well to racing the big bike, but, I think my cornering skill will improve more with middleweight (RS660) racing next year. I love my BMW too much to sell it, but it is hard to ignore the skill of people getting around the track as fast as you, with half the horsepower. Ken Hill’s podcasts are priceless (but, I donate anyway).
did you think racing was going to be inexpensive? If you had a list priorities... instruction should be at the top. It will pay more dividends than ANY part you purchase including tires.
Club racing doesn’t have to be overly expensive. Used bikes, used parts, takeoffs, etc. Also, lots of options to get someone to give you pointers. Lots of ex-racers just doing track days now. Ask your track marshals if they have any tips. Ask guys that passed you what they saw…and listen to Ken Hill. Don’t be intimidated before you try it. Way more nice guys than egos. Speaking as a relative race newbie. Lots of experience on this forum, lots of people giving back to the sport.
this comes down to what Ken Hill calls "bad data". I started in 2008... kind of late in life. I asked & rode with different "fast" racers, took just about every local school, tried cracking the tire code of feel or brand preference, and bought a bevy of unnecessary parts. Looking back now... the schools I took didnt really drill down into the basics you could build on or reference. At Team Hammer they spent an hour on Daytonas T1 approach with input from various recognizable named racers. Nobody said a thing about how your neck will be contorted & vision slightly blurred with the throttle on the stop on NASCAR 3 & 4 five seconds before you approached. Bargy was a 10hr day that was basically a new racer procedure school... nothing about actual riding other than try not to be emotional. These were all pass/fail type schools... if you crashed you automatically failed. So you can imagine having that fear keeping you from actually exploring the limits. And used takeoffs are an absolute NO!. Better to buy brand new street tires. They arent going to limit your learning curve. Have a 2nd set of wheels with slicks when you want to go the full fraction. And all tires are round & black & the modern stuff has no issues for the tl;dr my priority list: -Qualified Instruction -Fitness -Bike Fit /Equipment -Logistics And yes you can do club racing on a shoestring just dont expect fantastic results without #1 & 2 on the list.
If you’re goal is MotoGP; start at age 10, get a big sponsor, and do what turbo says. If your goal is trying club racing, what we have done has been fun up and down the west coast with two different clubs, 2 S1000RRs, an R6, and a Ninja 250. We rarely see anyone racing on DOTs, and we chalk info on our tires. Friends in the pits that race MA were extremely charitable with their takeoffs and helped my son immeasurably. The point is, getting your feet wet in racing can be a very rewarding experience where the return on a small investment can pay dividends for the rest of your life. Four thumbs up over here.
As with most things these days - the more you spend, the better you will be. With racing and just starting off, it's not only that spending will make you better - it will make you better faster. Racing on a shoestring budget is fine, but you won't improve as fast as you could and maybe not as fast as others. The guys that win ride/race monthly or more often, pay for coaching, are on modern equipment with the best tuning support, and are using fresh tires. The 2 areas where I wish I spent more early on in my racing are: instruction and tires. This thread has already discussed instruction. Spending $$ on tires is all about how effective your track time is. If you can go faster on new tires, you should be racing on new tires*. If you can go faster on softer compounds, you should be racing on softer compounds. You should be practicing on the newest tires possible. Riding or racing at 3sec off your fastest pace because you are on old busted tires is not nearly as effective as riding at your fastest pace. I used to buy one set of Hard compound tires for a double header race weekend. I was racing at a slower pace because of the compound and racing even slower towards the end of the weekend. In terms of learning to go faster, what waste of time and resources that was. But as others have said already, all of this depends on your goals in racing. And you don't need to worry about any of this to have fun. And your goals will probably change with your laptime *If you are a B-group track rider that can do the same lap time on a brand new vs a 100 lap tire, don't worry too much about new tires. But that will change as you drop time.
