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Crazy or stupid?

Discussion in 'WERA National Endurance Series' started by 50Joe, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. 50Joe

    50Joe Registered User

    There is talk among my para riding friends to form a para only LWT endurance team. Only one rider is truly up to speed and has been riding as a para for 11 years and is pretty darn quick on his R1 and RSV4. I got pretty comfortable at the last track day weekend of the year and am ready to work on getting my lap times down this coming year. The two other guys really need a lot of seat time first. If we do this is will be late 2021.

    So, here's the question. I estimate our pace will be mid to back of the pack LWT able body sprint racers. At that pace are we a hazard to other bikes on the track? Flowing corners aren't a problem but flip flop sections like T3 at Road Atlanta are way more difficult for obvious reasons. I'd hate to go down this road and then cause issues on the track. Even though the experienced para has a lot of track time, it is track days only. I'm really the only one with many race miles ridden. We've all agreed all riders need real race experience in sprints before we try endurance.
     
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  2. Tristan

    Tristan Well-Known Member

    I don't think laptimes have shit to do with it... if you hold your line and don't make any weird moves or line choices you're good. If you really want to gage your times- look at past results and check the times of the last 5 teams overall (hint- they won't all be LW teams...) As far as doing sprints first- you wouldn't be the first to go from riders school straight to Endurance and I'm not sure it would really matter either way. Biggest issue with noobs is doing shit like looking over their shoulder and trying to "get out of the way" Good luck, hope it comes together!
     
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  3. TLR67

    TLR67 Well-Known Member

    Neither..... It’s awesome... Do it....
     
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  4. jrsamples

    jrsamples Banned

    Everybody up to endure that? Club review of abilities, just like new racers?

    If so, then you ain't gonna live forever. Grid up.
     
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  5. 50Joe

    50Joe Registered User

    Yea, I had no issues when I raced at Road Atlanta this past October. I started from pit lane and it was a 2 wave start so I knew I was going to get lapped. Cory Hart was in a good battle for the lead and they split me going up the hill to T3. I purposely left room on both sides and held my line. The new guys really need more experience IMO.
     
  6. 50Joe

    50Joe Registered User

    Physically, that is one of my concerns for the other guys. I've ridden my handcycle over 6300 miles just in 2020 and wouldn't have a problem. 5 of us were at NCM for a track day weekend late October. I came in after a session as fresh as I went out. All the other guys were a bit tired and needed the break. But, if they get worn down and I gotta do extra laps, all the better for me.
     
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  7. Kev59

    Kev59 Well-Known Member

    Joe, I think your assessment of the other riders would have the most bearing. You know what it takes do get the job done safely and Sean would probably agree with you.
    I'm concerned about a lot of things, but Joe Pomeroy on track isn't one of them.
    Plan on the CMP round and I'll do whatever I can you for you.
     
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  8. ducnut

    ducnut Well-Known Member

    I really don’t think sprint race experience is necessary. In fact, I’d much rather grid up with the endurance crowd, as they’re more geared toward an average pace and ride with maturity and longevity in mind. I can’t tell you how many squidly, sprint “racers” have done stupid shit around me trying to prove their worth; not so with the endurance guys. And, the endurance crowd have always been the most chill in the pits. I’d suggest doing some track days together, riding in a group, and doing some assessing/coaching throughout the event. It’ll be a good time and allow for team bonding. After a few days together, then, assess where you all are at.
     
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  9. StaccatoFan

    StaccatoFan My 13 year old is faster than your President

    I'm building a Ninja 400 for my son to start doing sprints when he's 13 or 14, we will also be doing some LWT Endurance on it.

    I am planning on the Summit Point Endurance round this year at least as a shakedown test of the bike, and just to say I did an endurance race at least once to
    give this old man a shakedown test before I truly decide I'm ready to do a 2 hour race teamed up with Mr. Unlimited Energy.

    So get your wheelchair crowd to get themselves in better condition and come do the Summit round in Sept. We will all be back markers together. Just for the fun of it.
     
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  10. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    A friend who was injured had a minor point. To start... I assume you have outriggers but getting into the 'slot' might be challenging. Though I suspect the grid marshall would either help or allow a pit member to help (be really disappointed if not). Also your team will suffer on pit times. But I got to believe the accomplishment/grin factor will be off the charts. Good luck on this.
     
    50Joe likes this.
  11. 50Joe

    50Joe Registered User

    If the endurance bike isn't fitted with "landing gear" we would probably just start from pit lane. No big deal in an endurance race.
     
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  12. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    I have ridden with someone that had the landing gear. Not sure how easy it would be to guide into a 'slot' though. I am sure you guys know how precisely you can stop on the exact location.

    DO IT!!! :beer:
     
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  13. StaccatoFan

    StaccatoFan My 13 year old is faster than your President

    It’s the faster riders job to responsibly get by slower riders safely and cleanly. That’s first and foremost here.

    I watched the 2 hour at Nelson Ledges last year and that’s part of the reason I got the 400. Looks like fun. Traffic isn’t too bad and I won’t get in the way of AOD or N2 in their chase for the title. I’m doing one maybe 2 rounds. I’m not there for glory. Just for fun.
     
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  14. pjzocc

    pjzocc Well-Known Member

    I'll echo what others have said about lap times: you'll be fine, and in LWT it's not going to be a huge gap, or crazy closing speeds. Dude, if I can roll on the track with AOD and Twisted without ruining their day, you and your crew will be a'ight!

    The physical aspect of the whole thing is going to be your/their biggest hurdle, and focus. It's when it's late in your session and you start to fatigue, that you need to recognize and signal your crew that you need to come in. We did our first and only 4hr last Sept. 3 riders, 40 minute stints. First stint I was fine. It was the 2nd 40 that was a struggle after being off the bike for 80 minutes. The last 10 minutes of that 2nd session was the most difficult 10 minutes on a track I've ever done.

    That said, please keep this thread updated with your plans. I'm doing PittRace again this year, and looking at Nelson and Summit rounds as well. If I can be of any help at the track, I'd love to assist. I'm a shitty mechanic, but can help swap tires, balance fuel cans, sing karaoke, and put bikes on and off stands. I'm pretty sure I can put an EZ-Up up too.
     
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  15. 50Joe

    50Joe Registered User

    I know the other guys would need shorter stints. I bet 30 minutes max. I ride metric centuries on my handcycle so as long as it's not uber hot I'm pretty sure I could do decently long stints. A 20 minute track day session felt short to me like I was just getting in a groove. I'm sure we would need help. We'll need 2 guys just to catch and release the rider as they come into hot pit and exit hot pit.
     
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  16. pjzocc

    pjzocc Well-Known Member

    If I'm there, I'm happy to help. Keep us posted with your plans, sir. I'm sure you'll have plenty of hands willing to assist.

    I've only done it once, so not a veteran by any stretch, but if any ?s about what to expect, feel free to fire away.
     
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  17. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    I disagree. No amount of adhering to a responsibility can be problem free when you still have riders that don't maintain a line. Sprint or endurance, that lack of discipline can ruin the best and safest "passers" in the business. Add to that, a rider that HAS to make a line change to avoid some dipshit only to place himself in the path of another rider about to make a pass in that same space. Now what takes precedence? Pass safely or hold your line? Regardless of the outcome when avoiding said dipshit, that dipshit has no clue that they are/were the catalyst for peggin' the puckerometer for riders in their vicinity.

    Count how many times you've made passes without incident and then count the times an attempted pass was damn near impossible, dangerous or ended in disaster because the "passee" behaved in a manner contrary to standards of track etiquette.
    How do you hold someone accountable to some expectation of responsibility in either situation? In the first case, no harm - no foul...great riding by all. In the second scenario, what in the fuck in all that is holy do you think you're doing, fucktard...and the peanut gallery blames the passing rider? :rolleyes: GTFO with that shit.
     
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  18. 50Joe

    50Joe Registered User

    I agree with both posts and thoughts. I've always erred to the safety side and have no worries about myself. Two of the other riders definitely need racing time experience and the "hold your line" drilled into them. Real racing experience is definitely different than just track day riders. I did track days for 3 years and when I first started racing I quickly realized how much I still needed to learn. Fortunately I had an experienced mentor to coach me so I came up to speed safely very quickly.
     
  19. pjzocc

    pjzocc Well-Known Member

    I think maybe the simplistic point Darrin was making was just maintain your line and don’t worry about what’s behind you. It’s when the slower rider hears someone rolling up behind them and makes an uncounted adjustment where issues happen. It doesn’t take more than a corner or two for a faster (competent) rider to judge if the guy in front of him can maintain his line. I don’t disagree with your scenarios, though.

    An AOD member told me “just ride your ride” at PittRace (we were pitted next to them, I mentioned we’d try to stay out of their way). Good advice. When they (and several others!) came around me I was so focused on my own ride that it never bothered me, other than the fact I got passed - again.

    It was a shit ton of fun though! So much more exhilarating than a sprint race.

    This is me stuffing Hayden in the carousel... or him rolling around me on the outside. Either way... good fun!
    D62780FA-AE3C-46AF-AAA8-0CAFB80254A3.jpeg
     
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  20. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Yeah, the risks are real. EVERYONE has to be on the same page.
    We all make mistakes, not gonna say otherwise, and I don't know any shortcuts to instilling line discipline in an up-and-coming rider, but one thing that might help is communicating that a rider's purpose on track is to beat the track. Can't beat it without line discipline.
    The competition is not the opponents sharing track space with you, it's doing a better job than those opponents at conquering the track. Can't do that without line discipline.
    Recurring theme? Worth repeating. Can't do it without line discipline.

    Just sayin', whether anyone agrees with my opinion or not, one can not be a successful track rider/racer without line discipline, but you can sure as hell be a failure.
    :dead:
    :beer:
     
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