An American experience

Had an interesting conversation with a colleague at lunch today. Essentially he said that he didn't feel that the 2A applied to him, because, as a black man, any interaction he would have with a police officer would be categorically worse if he himself were armed, even if he was legally carrying AND not breaking any laws. (This came up in the context of a discussion on open carry.) He gave the example of arecent interaction with a police officer because somebody called the cops on him for "illegally" parking his motorcycle on a street.

As it turns out, there was nothing illegal about the way he had parked his bike. His only "crime" was the fact that he was a black man in a white neighborhood, and one of the white residents called the cops on him.

His comment was to the effect of "Imagine how much worse it could have been for me if I had been armed (and carrying openly). Here I was minding my own business, in full compliance with the law, and an LEO who only knows what he has been told by the white property owner, namely, that there is an AA male who apparently has no regard for the law (parked illegally) wandering around a predominantly white neighborhood, is looking for me."

Since carrying a gun openly would only make things worse, the 2A doesn't really mean that much to him. He doesn't feel that he can take advantage of the 2A the same way a white person can in our society today.

I guess I'm bringing it up here because I know there are a number of pro-2A guys here who are also black. My question to you guys is: do you feel the same way?

(Btw, I realize that the above hypothetical assumes that the LEO would not use good judgment/be courteous/be unbiased in the interaction. Perhaps that is an unfair assumption, but then again, I think the FTP thread might suggest otherwise.)

 

This is why I get so worked up over police shootings being justified because “he had a gun”. So what? It’s my 2nd Amendment right to have a gun. Unless I’m using that gun to shoot (first) at you, it shouldn’t justify your shooting at me.

 

As a matter of record: not black.

I don't think your colleague is wrong and I act accordingly as a white man. I have had cops draw on me multiple times and not a chance I'd care to repeat those events (none were committing any crime) while armed myself.

 

I can somewhat see his side. I can also see the side that any law abiding citizen faces. In NC, we are required to inform a police officer that we're carrying as soon as one walks up to us. Show your hands, say you're carrying and offer to show your permit. To me that seems against everything the 2A is about. Announce to the gov't "scorekeeper" that you're carrying... I'm sure there are some areas, like Baltimore, that it might not be a good idea. Where I'm from, I don't think it'd make any difference. The worst I've ever gotten, around 10+ years ago, was that they ran the serial on the gun to assure it wasn't stolen. Sure as hell wasn't because I was black, or green, or red. I've known a few black riding friends in the past that carried. Never seemed to matter much and I never thought about it.

Of course, Chapelle joked about it in his latest stand up. If you want the laws to change, all black people go out and legally purchase a firearm. It'll change. I laughed.

 

There is only one reason to demand that it remain your right to own and carry a firearm.

1. If you give it up you'll never get it back.

That's it.

 

I get that they want to be safe, but honestly, it's none of their fucking business. They should just assume everyone is carrying all the time and be done with it.

 

It’s posts like this that make it hard for me to put you into one of the two boxes I have.

 

Maybe you need more boxes

 

Or one could acknowledge that not everything or everyone fits neatly into a box.

 

You just need to chop them up into smaller pieces.

 

This. Anyone who thinks it would stop with the 2A is fooling themselves.

 

I saw a couple of white dudes walking through my neighborhood the other day. From my house I can see the sidewalk to the side of me and in front. I followed them and even waited and then jumped on my Harley to do a drive by. Unknown people in neighborhoods should be looked upon as unusual, I don’t care what color they are.

 

Watch this Youtube video of Senator Tim Scott (R). The only black Senator. Then let me know if you think racism in America isn't a problem.

 

Its more about behavior then race. It’s not a race divide - it’s a behavior divide. Act like a jackass in front of the police and then ignore their directives but then think it’s because of your race. I put the blame on a culture that continually teaches the notion to not trust the police and that all police are bad. It simply is not true. And The US is far from being the racist country that some continue to perpetuate that it is. Certainly less racist then a majority of other countries, no question.

 

Racism will always be a problem, it's human nature. Is it the same as it was 50... 20 years ago? F' no. It's to the point that most of the people complaining about it are simply playing victim, and rarely are the recipients of it complaining about it. I know a few recipients of it, and they just ignored it and got on with their lives.

 

Did you even watch the video? If not, you should. It's worth the time.

 

I did watch it. I’ve been pulled over by police for not doing anything either. Ive been kicked out of mall parking lots late at night just hanging out with friends, listening to music in our cars. Ive been pulled over by the town cop while legally riding my moped just to see if I was licensed etc. I’ve been followed into gas stations while in a group on our sportbikes only to have the cop get out and write down our license plate numbers while telling us he better not receive any complaints of loud bikes tonight. I’ve been singled out leaving bars and pulling into my neighborhood in the early hours. It’s very easy to simply attribute it as a race issue when in reality it’s behavior. Race is not the magnitude of problem that some keep saying it is. I’m confident that a black man walking in my neighborhood is inherently safer then me walking down certain streets on the South side of Chicago. Hell, even in areas in Des Moines. If people truly want to come together, it takes everyone, not just police and white people.

 

Check your attitude and don't act sketchy...it's that simple. Bad attitudes, sudden movements, and non-compliance are what get you in trouble, not skin color.

 

I'll just add that in my experience, telling a cop that you are a permit holder and carrying while having a good attitude puts the cop at ease and a lot of times gets you out of tickets (got me out of speeding tickets!). If you passed the background checks, that cop's job just got easier because you don't have a criminal history and you are not a trouble maker. This based on conversations with my friends and family LEOs, and watching them perform their job on multiple department ride alongs. Oh, and my experience getting pulled over too.

What I've witnessed is that good attitude wins, bad attitude gets your dumbass in trouble and this simple equation is not affected by skin color.

One of the funniest incidents I saw was a traffic stop conducted by a friend in St. Paul. Car had two whites in the front, male/female and a black male in the rear. While officer hardass was doing his questioning of the occupants, the guy in the backseat throws his arms up and starts yelling, "I have a gun! I have a gun! But I have a permit!" Officer hardass just stares at him and says, "if you have a permit, then you are law abiding so why in the hell would I care that you are carrying a gun?" Officer hardass then ignores the scary negro with a gat for the remainder of the traffic stop. I was

 

If my understanding of the police escalation/force process is correct, you are guaranteed a problem if you have any attitude. They ALWAYS go one step past the civilian. It is what they are trained to do to maintain authority.