Buyer Beware: Frank Babuska Sr

I'm interested.....how much?

 

Yup.
Had a friend that bought a bike that won a famous 'big time' race, from a big time builder/team....when he got it, it appeared to be either a B-bike missing lots of the cool bits, or a bike built from that season's left overs.

I have been capucked by a well-known on one deal....he prolly built/shipped me what he had on hand, instead of what I asked for....thinking I wouldn't know the difference....which I didnt :-D
And then screwed again by a local builder on repairing a damaged bike.....there was/is so much f'd up shit I am still uncovering and having to pay money to get it unfukd..... that i am at the point that i believe, all the work was sabotaged on purpose.

It happens.

 

Agree completely.

I was just trying to list possible scenarios, one of which is still trying to give FBS the benefit of the doubt. But I agree, option one is the least likely. Not to mention it doesn't explain the missing Brembo parts that were on the bike originally, then removed prior to the bike being delivered.

 

This.

Dyno's vary so much. Like Greg said, you would need to know what stock bikes make with essentially the same mods with the same fuel.

But FWIW, I know those numbers are down 15-18% to what a Livengood 2mm Superbike motor makes. But again, the only way that would be accurate would be if you took it to Livengood's dyno and had him tune it.

 

The more that comes out in this thread, the happier I am about my approach to race bikes.

 

Exactly.

Because you know they are going to race it. They aren't buying the bike to put on display in the living room. And if they are expecting a certain bike with certain mods and a certain motor, you know they are going to notice when that shit isn't right. I mean, how many racers aren't going to realize the Brembo parts are missing? How many racers are going to go into T1 expecting ___ springs, then have the forks completely bottom out, and not notice the difference? When it comes to selling a race bike, to a racer, the truth will come out at some point.

 

To be honest its just general integrity as a human being, the worlds f'ed up enough to go ripping people off.

 

I know a guy who bought a SS 600 from a top tier AMA team back in 06 or so. He paid for it, had a bill of sale, etc. showed up at the final round and wanted the bike right then, right off the track. The team insisted they take the bike back to their race shop and freshen it up, etc. There was a huge pissing match which ultimately went his way and he got his bike.

The thing was a missile. When the motor went bang after a few weekends and local builder tore it down and found it full of unobtainium. Point is, sometimes guys take parts off to defraud, and other times it's to hide something. Either way it's wrong.

 

Pardon my ignorance for this question, but is this why the top teams always want to sell their racebikes refreshed?

I don't doubt that they want to freshen up the motor for the buyer, but are they also pulling out special parts?

This thread is pretty depressing. I would like to upgrade to a better built bike in the next couple of seasons, yet have no desire or means to build from scratch. I will need to cover my bases when I am looking for a new ride.

I really never worried about getting screwed this way, from this community, but I guess the typical BS exists even in our ranks. Very eye-opening. Good luck to you Ducti, I hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

 

No, not in all cases. Many times it is done because the first question somebody asks when buying a used race bike is "when was the last time the motor was refreshed?". It is much easier to sell a used race bike when everything is fresh. And because nobody wants to sell someone a bike, then have it be tired or blow up, and have that person go online with shit like "____ sold me a bike and it didn't even make it one weekend".

If/when I sell my R6, it will have been recently refreshed. I will do a top-to-bottom refresh (motor, suspension, braking system, new chain/sprockets, etc) before the GNF so it will be 100% fresh for the GNF. I am undecided if I will race it again next year or not, so if I sell it, it will only have 1 weekend on everything.

 

Thanks, Booger.

I have a unique approach to this mess but ill reserve all that later after the motor is apart and we all know what we are looking at.

A small aside; ive benefitted from the BBS in more ways than one. Its the small quality stuff that added up from this community helping me prior to this mess.

So obviously, while these threads really go in the way of the OP, i felt that this one did and that before guys like you go handing over this kind of money on a race bike with glamour parts, just take a moment to poke at it more than i did.

 

Does that is include Carillo Rods? Lol.

 

if i bought a race bike from a "big race team" these days? i think i would want to buy it right off the track after the big final round.. any competent builder can refresh a motor. buy the bike with this fact built into the price, everyone wins i think, and the buyer isn't waiting around hoping cool bits don't go missing. It may last 2 minutes before it goes bang, it might last another season.. but it's no more trouble than buying a new bike, and

 

That last light hearted comment was directed at Chaotic, not you Ducti.

I have certainly learned much from this thread. My next racebike purchase will be handled very carefully, and with much due diligence.

 

No i understand!

If broomes bike has a light kit generator, you and i will be locked i a bidding war

 

I had one of those motors once. When we tore it down, it was infinitely clear that we were way over our heads in terms of things that were inside the engine and why it was built the way it was built. After taking it to one of the more well know builders, his comment was exactly as you stated. It's not necessarily cheating, but there are parts that mere mortals just cannot get. His other point was that professional engine builders that work for race teams have their own secrets and do not like to share. Hence, the refresh is removing a few of those tricks of the trade.

 

I would also advise buyers get a full list of whats going,and whats staying. Seems like you would be getting what your looking at,but amazingly
does not always go that way.Im a dinosaur compared to most all of you,but still remember watching a club racer purchase a tz250 from a reputable
champion,only to find all the goodies were removed. Not my money,but could see how someone would get severly pissed!!
Hell,I wish I could just afford what you guys spend on tampons,and tire warmers!! Joking!!

 

the days of unobtanium bits on full factory bikes (well, even full factory bikes) are long gone it would seem. So nobody need worry about lining up to buy one, cause ya can't (there are none).

Todays race bikes are darn good outa the box, and from what i see, there are a few things that get done.. which many can buy no matter who you are, and they go racing. You can buy a graves bike direct from graves, anytime you want. it may not have every little trick, but it's gonna be close (but over $25k?).

I think the most secret stuff today would likely be ECU data.. engine braking, acceleration maps (tc), etc. chances are a big time team might throw on a basic map strategy to a bike they sell, which might be better for some riders, or i could totally suck. And that can be done in a matter of seconds, right there in winners circle with a laptop.

 

The bikes are most certainly better out of the box, however from what I have seen, the builders are getting much better. Truthfully, yes the maps are getting up there, but there is a very noticeable difference in a properly built SS engine than someone with a good tune.

 

Yes - as a matter of fact my R6 motor does have Carillo rods.

I mean, for real...not for fake.