help a noob gain confidence in the pneumatic circumferential wheel protectors.

I'm slow, like lapped by Eberhart slow. I know it's a lack of confidence in the stiction of the rubbers. Mostly under braking and turning in, some at mid corner, both off and on throttle. I think it goes back to the only times I've gone down are from washing out the front.

how do you get past this?
The speeds most of you carry into T1 at RRR is way above my comfort level now. But I'd like to get there eventually.

TIA

 

Lapped by Eberhart?

Only thing to do is hang up the leathers and take up knitting.

 

Mini Bike, parking lot, cones/tires etc and make a course. Keep pushing till you get the knee down, then keep pushing till your using the knee to stay up.

Dirt bike too!

 

Dirt riding will help you learn to feel the bike move around and replicates what it's like to push the front and rear similarly to what happens on the track. For me knowing what that feeling is like is helpful because I know if I'm not feeling the beginnings of those actions I am ok and I can push as I get comfortable with the track until I do and sometimes altering my braking for a particular corner helps me et in faster with less drama.

That is my strategy anyway and perhaps it can help you. I'm not a super fast guy but am mid to upper amteaur pace at most tracks even ones I haven't seen before. Hopefully some of the really fast guys will chime in with some pointers.

One last thing is you might want to consider a school like the disalvo speed academy or CSS or YCRS or any of the others. Those guys are there to help you get comfortable with going faster.

 

Someone will come along and tell you the proved way to do it, i.e. starting with letting off the brakes earlier and. Getting back to maintenance throttle earlier.
But honestly just gotta suck it up butter cup!
And a big help would be riding mini bikes at herrins or Cmp like you thought of before, you have to carry corner speed on them or you can't go any where. Also it sucks less t crash at 25 then 75.

 

I knew that was coming.
mini practice will happen eventually. I can't pull it off right now.

When I take my DR on fire roads or even pavement. I can feel it moving around all day it's NBD. The front starts to get light to the touch in a turn, so I stand it up and no problem.

Do the track tires react the same way as the squirmy knobbs? Or is it different?

 

Put street tires on your dirtbike. Also how do you enter the turn? Chest open?

 

For me, speed has always built slowly. That sounds like an oxymoron, but it isn't. Unless you possess a superior riding talent (most of us don't), it takes time (on the track) to find your speed. As a new rider circulating around the track and not crapping my pants every time a faster rider came wailing by me was a victory.

As I got more comfortable and relaxed, I was able to find riders that were a little bit faster and follow them. Once I found them holding me up, I latched onto riders a little bit faster and learned from them and so on. This has been the best learning tool for me over the years.

Most importantly, have a plan. Identify what your specific areas of difficulty are and be prepared to figure out how to improve incrementally. Simply saying, "I will go faster, push harder, get bigger balls.", is a recipe for falling on your head.

 

What do you mean by chest open?
I move to the inside of the seat and I think I twist my upper body so my shoulders are turned into the way I want to go.

 

Baconologist, if you are going to be at Road Atlanta, stop by our pit. I have tons of time on the 250s and can help you pick up the pace with baby steps. You only have to be patient, willing to listen and willing to keep notes. Look for Cyclone fifth wheel with Red Dodge 2500. Red Fox Racing, bike #12.
Peter

 

Thanks Peter
I'm planning to do the practice day so I'll find you!

 

I've used that technique at track days and at Tally earlier this year. At RRR it was much more apperant how off the pace I was. I didn't have anyone I was comfortable trying to keep up with.

 

PM your cell number and we can come up with a plan.

 

my chest was turned away, along with a host of other "forced" issues when approaching a turn. Especially true in race pace where I was more reactionary vs being calm & collected. Got the muscle memory down and my consistency went up.

 

Sent

I "think" I try to almost lunge my body at the mirror. I'm not sure if I come up off the seat, of just end up flatter to the tank. But it feel like my heads way out over the front axle nut and outside of the bodywork.

 

How many times have you been to RRR? It's an easy track to learn, but a very difficult one to master as most of the turns are very high speed, so there's quite a bit of finesse involved in getting the maximum out of it. T1 is a turn that looks a lot tighter than it actually is. To get through it properly, you have to enter "too fast" and allow the speed to scrub off while drifting wide in between T1 and T2. If you find yourself getting back on the gas in between t1 and t2, then you overbraked for T1.

Ultimately, this comes back to what Kris (T500) said: Repetition, repetition, repetition! When you first start, you can drop whole seconds off your pace every time you go out because your so far off the pace to begin with. As you get faster, the gains get smaller. It's human nature that you will come up against plateaus where you just seem to have stopped improving. You CAN NOT let plateaus discourage you, because THIS is when you are figuring out what the next big leap is going to be.

My 1st season racing (20 years ago!!) I was racing a mostly stock rz350. Between WERA and CCS, I think I went to RRR 5 times that year. My 1st weekend there, I got down to a 1:31 and thought I was pretty bad-ass. The next 2-3 times I was there, I didn't really improve and basically had low 1:30's all 3 times. Then I hit a 3 day weekend (friday practice, vintage on sat and clubman/d-super/lw twins on sunday) and by the end of the weekend was doing 1:25's. The relaxed "no pressure" atmosphere of the practice day allowed me to stop worrying about keeping up with the guy ahead of me and focus on trying different lines and different turn in points. The plain simple fact that I got in 40-50 laps, instead of 20-25 that I would get in a typical race day didn't hurt either!

Bottom line: Keep at it! Don't measure your performance against other racers, measure it against yourself. (laptimes) Drop your times and everything else will fall into place. Dirtbikes help. so does finding a more experienced racer to mentor you.

Here's a link to one of my races from this weekend on it. A couple things to notice:

T1: Notice that I enter in 4th gear, coasting and drifting wide to set up for t2. When I finally get out to 1/2-2/3 track, I then downshift to 3rd and start getting back on the gas. If I were to make all 3 downshifts going into t1, I would be going too slow and would have to get back on the gas. Note also that I get back on the gas well before I can see the exit. T2 is just one of those turns that you have to learn to trust your throttle pick up point.

T3 and T8/9: Laptime-wise, these are the 2 biggest "money makers" on this track. Note that for both of them, I upshift to 5th and keep WFO through the turn instead of screaming its guts out in 4th gear. leaving it in 4th would result in a lurchy "on-off-on-off" throttle throughout the turn and would upset the chassis. Slightly bogging it in 5th lets me hold wfo, which keeps the chassis happy and allows me to focus on line selection. (critical in both of these turns!)

T5: Many people go into this really tight and then drift out mid corner, and then tighten their line for the exit. Unless traffic/race strategy dictates otherwise, I always run a very wide line because it means that my lean angle stays constant for the entire turn. (changing lean angles mid corner makes chassis unhappy) Running the wide line takes some practice and time to get used to. I highly recommend a track walk and/or some laps on a bicycle to help your brain get used to running near the edge of the track without freaking out!

A lot of these are really finesse thing. Running at 85% of the pace the bike is capable, these things won't matter, but get up close to the limits of adhesion and suddenly a "little" thing like rolling off the gas or changing your lean angle (or god forbid, both!) mid-corner will put you on the deck before you can say "lowside". I hope some of this helps!:up:

 

First time to RR, and only 2 sessions in. I knew I was over braking, and just as you said. I didn need more than maintainace throttle to get to the outside apex.

In my mind that comes from lack of confidence in when the tire will start sliding. I know I'm no where close to it now. It just seems that way or I'm faking myself out.

 

Way to go Sean.....summed up my huge post in 2 lines.....EXACTLY!