Taken out at +140mph!!!

Did you not really mean to say, " I was behind you when you wrecked yourself...."

How about , " I was behind you when Ted took you out." Wouldn't that be more accurate?

 

Ice cream cake with the layer of chocolate crunchies in the middle surpasses all.

 

Its possible Ted has a triple clamp Yoda, guiding his Jedi ways... or not.

Me personally... when I run in the advanced group... I go ahead and put the dashboard Darth Vader on the tail section.
Its all Jedimindtrix!!

 

I can remember my first trackday clearly from two summers ago. I was riding VIR north course. I was following a CR who was trying to show me some lines. We got to the front straight where there is a right hand kink, and he passed a rider who was slower than us and waved me through. I was hesitant, but accelerating at the same time. At the kink, most riders stay to the right at the apex of the kink, or that’s what I remember thinking. I haven’t had the opportunity to get back there, and I could be way wrong, but that would make sense right? So, I went to finally pass this slower guy and went to the outside of him. Well, this guy moved to the outside as well, as I was still accelerating. Instead of running into this guy, I ran off the track at approximately 130 mph. Now there are a number of things that I could have done to avoid all of this I am sure, but it was my first day, my brain was overloaded, and I just made a series of mistakes. I kept the bike upright thank god, and learned my first major lesson about trackriding (not riding over your head (even when the CR waves you up)). The point is, this was my first day ever on a track, and I knew not to run other people down even when they did something unpredictable!

I prefer cake, but there is this place here that makes cake with fruit and yogurt in between the cake layers, and it’s incredible. It’s like pie cake. Or caie, or, let’s just call it “Pake”. Mmnnnn.

 

Every combined group I've ever rode in was help under Intermediate passing rules. The track day guys always made a big point about that. Overall, those days seem to run pretty smoothly - most of the A guys tone it down a bit and the I guys step it up a notch. Again, just my experience from a few combo days on the East coast.

Either way, I would never pass someone on the outside when coming out of a fast straight. Too many riders get caught up in the top speed aspect and forget to get into the race line for the turn coming up. I think this is what happened here, a case of "holly crap this is fast", followed by "Holly crap, i need to get over to the left to make this turn".

When I'm following a situation like this, I'll either out brake them on the inside, or back off. Seen too many people drift into the line at the last minute.

9 times out of 10, I just show a front wheel on the inside; telling them: "hey, i'm taking this much faster than you, so unless you want an inside pass, back off on the next turn". I was always taught that when someone shows you a wheel, you should let them by. Unfortunately, lots of riders look at it as a challenge, and try to go faster/brake deeper.

I'm one of those track day riders that trys to be as polite as possible, but sometimes its tough. Being nice to a rider in front, giving them some space, often opens the doors for A-holes to plow in with their dick moves.

 

I read the entire thread. It was pretty interesting.

There are three sides to nearly all crashes. Ride A, Rider B and what really happened. I swore I was taken out at Grattan...but after carefully examining the events it was 90% my fault and I rounded up to 100%.

While I have never in all my years of riding "taken out" another rider, I must admit next to a total brake failure at Road America, taking out someone or being taken out is my greatest fear. My wife was taken out in GRAND style in T1 at Mid-Ohio. A guy ran it up under her and highsided into her. It was a furball for sure and it was a dumb move but it was certainly not done with malice or intent. I have done my share of dumb stuff (much of it in print here...!!!) in life, fortunately it seems to always be just me alone who goes sliding down the track or over the high-side in grand style.

As some have said here, I don't take anything onto the track that I am not perfectly willing to bring back in a front-end loader. It could happen and I accept this as I accept the risk of personl injury or even worse.

I am glad you are ok after such big get off and hope you continue to ride on-track, with better results of course!

 

fixerated

 

Not only directed at you but also to those who said the same thing: I highly doubt anyone who crashes into another rider does this in malice or intent. But its their lack of consideration and poor judgment that is in question.

Also to those who have said the same: If it was a race then yes but not on a trackday. Granted the risks are involved but most trackday riders are out to have fun and don't expect to be taken out let alone by the org's owner.

 

I've attended a few 'combined group' days myself. My experience has been that the staff can preach safety and passing rules all they want - it is a very, very poor decision to combined intermediate groups (and their slowest of riders) with advanced groups (and their fastest of riders).

The closing speed differences are often ridiculous, the advanced riders get pissed off because of the crazy lines taken by the intermediate riders, and too many intermediate riders play hero for the day and ride way over their heads with the expected results.

I've stopped riding combined days as a result.

 

My wife was in the Intermediate group and the guy just got "sucked into" a situation following a faster rider that exceeded his skill level and BAM!. It was an accident and one for which he was truly sorry.

As for the bike comment.... speed is speed. 150+ at a race or a track day are exactly the same and the potential for destruction of equipment is equal at any given speed. The overwhelming majority of spills at (STT) track days are single bike/single rider and I suspect the same is true with other orgs

 

Monte - your logic and reason have no place in this thread.

 

True especially if it's at single bike/single rider accident. And I think that's in the back of every rider's mind but I guess I failed to clarify that I don't think riders expect to be taken out by other riders on a trackday like they do during a race.

 

I wasn't there, so I can't comment on the specific incident between JP and Ted, but I have experienced similar situations and have sympathy for both parties.

I remember riding with NESBA in the Intermediate group at Road America a few years ago. I had exited Turn 11 and was closing fast on two bikes riding side-by-side through Kettle Bottoms. The bike on the right was about 6' from the right edge of the pavement and I committed to passing them in that space. I was very close when the bike on the right suddenly started drifting (quickly) to the right. I made it past without touching anything (barely), but I had to go into the grass between the pavement and the concrete wall to do it. I realized then that the pass wasn't worth the risk.

Back in the pits, I sought out the rider, apologized for the close pass and politely asked him to hold his line in the future. He politely accepted my apology, agreed that he should have held his line and apologized to me for his drift to the right. We both learned valuable lessons. I learned to expect the unexpected, and to be more circumspect with regard to passing. The other rider learned that he should only use as much track as he needed for his speed, and the importance of being predictable on track.

I found a video that I think is probably a better approximation of what occured between JP and Ted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn1zs4UjGCw&feature=related

 

I don't ever expect to be taken out, race or td.
Well, maybe except for t1 on the start, but that's about it.
But I would guess that's because I assume everyone out there has the same consideration as I do for others on the track, which brings us to this 30 page thread....

 

Sucks but glad you able to walk away.

 

I agree with this.

I have tons of track day experience but very limited race experience. Can the race guys chime in here? How many crashes involve contact between two or more bike vs single bike/rider ones?

 

I think that this has gotten way off base here, I think everyone knows the risks involved at track days and racing, yes there are single crashes and crashes where people take others out. This thread is about the track day owner/organizer/MFIC going out on the track playing ricky racer and taking out the customer. In my book, it's totally unacceptable and I know first hand this has happened at other track day orgs too.

 

^^^



Back on topic.

 

I think that this is more a three sides to the story thread.

Edit.. and FWIW I honestly don't think there is an org out there who has a "book" where playing ricky racer and crashing out anyone it is acceptable.