vintage wrap up

Well I for one know nothing of the past from which any of this stems. Im not sure I want to either. 2010 will be my first year in motorcycle racing. WERA is where people I trust and respect race. So this is where I will be. That being said, I have a very wide range of racing motor sport knowlage. I been involved in everything from IMSA/SCCA road racing, NHRA/IHRA drag racing, Winston cup, and even APBA (SBR) off shore racing. 1 thing allways remains the same. About 95% of all motor sport racing is a hobby to most participants. Therefore, especially the way the economy is now, any class structure changes to keep costs down, while keeping parody amoung the participants will insure you have a field to put on the grid now and for years to come.

 

I am sure you all want your own race weekend,But from some one whos looked into track rental! Vintage wont support the 2 day deal! You need to look at the bigger picture,vintage is only a small percent of WERA.Sorry but thats the truth! In 2003 at NPR in L.A it was a complete vintage crowd and while it was big by most standards it didnt pay for the track!So with that in mind and with a grain of salt, look at the whole picture.I am trying to get WERA back to TEXAS and have for a while,but with the shrinking $ it may happen it may not! Most vintage guys want to race but as we know things always come up.As sean has said most are looking out for themselves and thats ok. But look at it from a business point of view and see what a pain it is for little return.So please keep this in mind when you make suggestion.Hope you feel better sean.Anything i can do to help let me know.Oh one thing that i did when we races was look at lap times when combining grids,put the slower class to the back so they can race in there own with a wave start.Did not matter what kinds of bikes where out there,It keeps the faster guys from running over the vintage guys.Just a thought!Later!

Steven Isenhower VFR #52 V-6 2001

 

so, the suggestion is to run proddy with v1, f500 and 350gp? leave the hondas in 350gp. no one else will show up for gp if the honvas arent there. the hondas are grid filler. plus, where would they bump to? i thnk its works well now. if you want to see the gp grids grow, bring a bike out. a real 500gp bike should wipe the floor with a stock honda. as it stands the rule still leaves open the ability for someone to bring in a truegp bike. when the gp grid is big enough, then its time to move the hondas out. but for gods sake, leave gp alone. no more adding classes. its sorta pointless. id rather see classes taken away if anything.

i think the things that are complained about in the op are minor. the gs450 rule is sorta moot. there are always typos in rulebooks. we all know the rules. as for the other issues raised, those seem like very minor things. the rest was just a criticism of how vintage is run.

id like to see a separate vrc again. i dont know how to make it work. but it would be nice to have a vintage only group.

of all of the big clubs that are run, i think wera has the best organization. if you want to see whining, look at matt tanners 50 he runs at the uscra events. the amount of bitching about that bike is spectacular. and those guys run what, 4 events up there? protests, complaints, rules changes, he just keeps racing it. the siliness i have seen happen at ahrma tech is beyond anything i have seen racing with any other club.

wera isnt perfect, but the are getting the job done. for the minority we are, racing on the same days as modern bikes, is done very very well. i used to do the 2 vay events with the lrrs, and the approach to the vintage bikes from the modern guys was not cool a lot of times. its a good ting we had jerry woods in our corner because he saved our asses several times id bet.

and i second to race with other clubs, venues. supermoto is run like a backyard club. flat track races are almost seemingly lawless. wera does a pretty damned good job i think.

think about what would have happened this year if the hadnt stepped up for mis ohio this year.

 

Steven,
Not to be argumentative, but your stating that vintage can not support a 2 day event is really just your experience and opinion based on how things have been in the past. I believe the idea is for vintage to become an income generator not loss for WERA. You are right, if the paradigm stays the same, then the turnouts will stay the same or get smaller. Joe C. stated that he has recruited new players and encouraged other racers to expand their travel. I suggested Blackhawk and IRP to increase WERA's presence in the midwest to attract new blood or regain some of the old blood.
Sean asked for constructive ideas, so I am assuming that he is actually willing to consider ways to grow vintage. WERA is not a club, it is a business, so it is really not about what we think we should have, other than we can speak with our wallets.
My point is that the nature of racing has changed since I ran my first WERA race in 1977. WERA has changed since then and we need to rethink what are ways to make good things happen for the racing you want to do. I think that some promotion of good 2 day events at suitable tracks will attract riders from WERA, AHRMA, USCRA, and CCS.

Ken

 

be gentile Sean, I'm sensitive and need nurturing.

 

wera already promoted a 2 day event this past summer. mid o. and everyone knows what the turnout was like there. especially when the rain got factored in. just sayin.

 

To be fair whoever ran Mid-Ohio after the AMA-AHRMA split was going to end up with small grids. I think that next year there will be an increase in participants now that all the dust has settled. I'm not so sure that WERA "promoted" the event, I think that it was more of a case of them being the "hired help" and I doubt that they lost any money on it......I might be wrong and I'm sure that I'll be corrected if that is the case.

 

My thought's exactly. Tex made some good points in a thread relating to that event.

 

ok, yeah, i agree with all that. that and the class structure was a little wonky. well, and the midwest ahrma guys are weirdos. haha.

how do you think daytona will turn out? just curious.

 

Ahrma has had increases in some of its vintage classes but has lost bikes in the modern twins classes. They also had record turn out for several race weekends. People won't travel long distances for one day of racing. I want to do some dirt tracking but refuse to travel for a full day for one race. Charles you owe me for the gnf gate fee. Pay up sucker.

 

Sean, I want to thank WERA for giving me a place to race an old bike in a class that is competetive. I have no dog in some of these other issues, I would like to see some of the bikes added to the V7 class that Gypsy said about, but I'm good either way. And thanks again for giving me a place to play. Lance

 

Lance, no more bikes in V7, I'm too slow as it is.

 

Steven,
Not to be argumentative, but your stating that vintage can not support a 2 day event is really just your experience and opinion based on how things have been in the past. I believe the idea is for vintage to become an income generator not loss for WERA. You are right, if the paradigm stays the same, then the turnouts will stay the same or get smaller. Joe C. stated that he has recruited new players and encouraged other racers to expand their travel. I suggested Blackhawk and IRP to increase WERA's presence in the midwest to attract new blood or regain some of the old blood.
Sean asked for constructive ideas, so I am assuming that he is actually willing to consider ways to grow vintage. WERA is not a club, it is a business, so it is really not about what we think we should have, other than we can speak with our wallets.
My point is that the nature of racing has changed since I ran my first WERA race in 1977. WERA has changed since then and we need to rethink what are ways to make good things happen for the racing you want to do. I think that some promotion of good 2 day events at suitable tracks will attract riders from WERA, AHRMA, USCRA, and CCS.

Ken


Well i would love to have a 2 day event! But Down here in TEXAS we have no Vintage to speak of! Now i started in 90 and have been around,I dont know everything,but i have checked into what it would cost to bring WERA back with out the other club.Not going to happen! RPM was on the upswing until it took a dive,old news,But i will tell you that a state the size of mine should have a lot of Vintage bikes put away in the garages!Now what i do know id that when RPM was her guys drove to L.A to race and i got to play and meet a great bunch of guys.I even made a few mad at me for being me!LOL! As in stated it cost money! im not sure that with todays $ we can make this all happen, I know every one is having a hard time racing and doing the real life day to day stuff.I for one have not raced because it cost to much to travel! I would love to do it but Not enough $!LOL! Now you have a one off 2 day win title deal and im there! LOL! I know that WERA is tightening its belt to stay here for the long haul.I would love to help out by racing and showing my support.But i am sure thats what every one would want.I am trying to get the word out to all the vintage guys who used to race in texas and have them come back out.As far as a 2 day deal,look into what it take $ wise to put it on and you will find its way up there and more than you think! I was shocked when i found out!You find a way to make it happen and i will be there! Yes things have changed!LOL! the Turd im riding was new when i started!!LOL! Take care and keep up the good work!

Steven Isenhower VFR #52 2001 V-6

 

Nice to hear you sticking-up for AHRMA Tim:up:

What I like about the two day race weekends (amongst other things), after travelling a long distance in my case (as some others do as well) is to relax on the Saturday night and make a weekend of it - Relax and enjoy the awards presentation or have a few beers, or both, and maybe fit-in a nice restaurant dinner with yer buddies . Its more than just the racing to me although racing is the main part. IMHO that's where AHRMA has it over WERA for some of us vintage guys. I appreciate that others see it differently and that they just want to race and load-up immediately when their race is done. WERA seems that way to me based upon the couple of events that I've been to anyway....

 

Yes I do...send me a PM w/address and I'll make good...Tim was bitchin' about the costs, so he needed a bribe to get him to the GNF.

 

I think someone had a few Yuengling before he wrote all of this. I'm just Protesting the fact that I wasn't inlcuded in the festivities!

 

Don't forget Yamaha RD250/350s in this group, but RD400s would kick everyone's ass. Maybe 500 4-stroke singles? I like Production racing, it's cheap and fun and my favorite class to race. Lightweight and Heavyweight would be enough to start. It could be a place for the ahrma production guys to race their bikes and build some grids. Proddy bikes need their own class because as I found out this year, an ahrma lightweight proddy bike gets spanked in V1, and it wasn't only my crappy riding skills. I'm building a true Wera V1 bike for next year, but still have my proddy bike, just in case there's a class for it........I'm putting the points back in it now.

Mark Badger