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crazy jig's un-employed everything must go sale!!!

Discussion in 'General' started by jigmoore, Mar 30, 2007.

  1. jigmoore

    jigmoore Banned

    i am interested in the at-will education if you guys know more (hyperdyne is hr also, isn't he...maybe i'll pm him). i'll explain a little more detail to see if the folks that know feel it's a wrongful discharge.

    here's the basic history:

    - started there 3 years ago.

    - no reviews ever. even though we asked for them many times and i gave every one of my employees timely reviews. not one of the mgrs got a review from the plant mgr.

    - measurables that determine my performance are fantastic - best the company has seen in 25 years (ppm reduction, customer concern reduction, installed ts16949, etc). and improvements are sustaining.

    - have a problem customer. the main contact is a real bitch. my boss agrees and talks to her boss about it. problems get better, but there's still tension.

    - that problem customer is also complaining about things that aren't out of print...and get pissed when i defend the company and don't take full monetary (punitive) responsibility for the problem. i do; however, offer a solution to each of THEIR problems and even initiate it and carry it out.

    - we also sent some bad parts in at the beginning of the launch - but we put some containment in place that proved effective and had just been released from the obligation to continue it (in other words we had really done a good job, according to that problem customer, at addressing the problems)

    so that's the history of this problem customer, here's the recent timeline that led to me getting fired:

    - about 5 months ago my boss approaches me out-of-the-blue during a wage and hiring freeze and offers me a 10% raise. gives me 5% then and promises the other 5% after the new year.

    - about 3 months ago, i get in an argument with the v.p. of sales. he makes an out of line snap judgement that pisses me off...i call him ugly names, he threatens to throw me out the window. we were both out of line. i apologized to him, he apologized to me later. i get written up - he doesn't. at first i refuse the write-up, and demand that he get written up also for forcing bodily harm on me. my boss agrees that the guy was out-of-line but then brings it around more to focusing on a couple peers not liking how i was treating them. i ask if we can all talk about it...we do...it was all misunderstandings...group hug...blah, blah. he still wants to finish the write-up just to close things out. i tell him i still disagree with it...he agrees but implies i'm arguing about it...so i shut up and just accept it.

    - about 1 month ago, he calls for a follow up review from the write-up. he says i've improved on all the items mentioned in the write-up. we joke that i don't think i've changed anything...but great. whatever.

    - last thursday, my boss goes to a meeting that he and i should have attended to together, but we were double booked on customer meetings. we decide i go to one customer meeting (went great) while he goes to the other (at the problem customer) and gets his ass handed to him.

    - he drives back to the shop (3 hr drive) and calls me and the hr mgr in to his office to fire me. says that i've pissed them off at the problem customer. i tell him firing me won't fix that problem...let's put the details out in front of us and just fix them. i ask for details...and he then agrees that all the things that they are pissed about aren't valid. then he shifts to well our performance is just not up to par...i remind him of the data...he backs down and agrees. then he just says my mgmt style doesn't fit there. well now he's done talking incorrect facts and now talking opinion...can't argue against that...so i said ok. i told him it was wrong to fire anyone who is not expecting it and then we shook hands and i left.

    - i went back a couple hours later to clean out my stuff hand in the key and ask for a severence package. he promised to try to get me one and offered me a good reference?!?! i asked him how in the world he could do that...

    anyway, sorry for the long story...but that's the details. does it look like wrongful discharge?

    i don't want to sue anyone. i just want 3 months severance to allow my family to survive while we re-structure. if i had some warning, i would have been more prepared and wouldn't need the severance.
     
  2. wdavis009

    wdavis009 Well-Known Member

    I was speaking more from a corporate policy perspective. All of the OEM's, and most of the Tier 1s have similar HR policies. These policies are to prevent good people from being let go due to favoritism, personality conflicts, etc. For instance, if someone always received good evaluations and then suddenly is being recommended for termination, HR is going to have a long talk (at the very least) with the senior manager or director making the recommendation.

    More important, the policies are there to protect the company from wrongful dismissal lawsuits. Yes, the employees are at will employees, but lawsuits are brought against the OEMs on a regular basis. Most never go to court.

    While it varies from company to company, the trend is the same: the employee must be made aware that their performance is below expectations and given sufficient time to improve their performance. At my company, that means the poor performance must documented by way of performance evaluations, i.e., below expectations rating. After 2 semi-annual (or 4 quarterly) "below expectations" ratings, the matter "can be" is referred to HR and the formal process begins, i.e., HR puts the employee on a 90 day improvement plan. If that fails, HR may then choose to terminate employment.

    If Jig works for a company that has such policies, and I believe he does, and he didn't receive any evaluations for 3 years, received a merit raise this year, and then was fired without warning, corporate policy was not followed and there is reason to believe his firing was due to a whim of his boss. As stated, things work a bit different at the plants than at corporate headquarters, but these things are not looked at kindly at headquarters. It won't get him his job back but it should be sufficient to ensure a 3-6 month severence package.

    Correct. Not sure why I wrote that. What Michigan State does require is that all at will employees are told they are such and sign a form so that the company can prove they were told.
     
  3. GixxerBlade

    GixxerBlade Oh geez

  4. wdavis009

    wdavis009 Well-Known Member

    Almost forgot, while legally emplyment is "at will", i.e., the company can lay people off at will, most HR departments require "cause" for firing someone as a matter of corporate policy.
     
  5. GixxerBlade

    GixxerBlade Oh geez

    Hey Jig did you have a written, verbal, or even an implied contract to work there? If so you have rights. :D (I've always wanted to say that)
     
  6. canalroadracing

    canalroadracing Well-Known Member

    Jig

    You can always bring that R1 back!:D

    But seriuosly, That sucks:down:
     
  7. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    I don't think that you are correct on the trend, although I have only a gut feeling, no empirical evidence. The bottomline is that if Jig were to sue he would get his ass handed to him and his attorney might get sanctioned for frivolous conduct. He simply has no claim to be made under the facts stated. Employers know this and feel free to callously/rightously terminate at will employees without concern for a lawsuit.

    But Jig, you should press for a severance package and they may give you a decent one. I'd be happy to eyeball any proposded agreement for you with the caveat that I'm not admitted to practice in Mich. so I can't actually offer you any legal advice. . .

    The standard severance package is only one week pay per year of sevice though. If you got 12 weeks pay you'd know that someone is trying to hide their incompetence.
     
  8. jigmoore

    jigmoore Banned

  9. jigmoore

    jigmoore Banned

    no contract.
     
  10. wdavis009

    wdavis009 Well-Known Member

    Not in the automotive industry and not in Detroit, both of which I'll be the first to admit are not the norm.

    3 months has traditionally been the minimum package in the automotive industry. I am speaking specifically about the OEMs and Tier 1 suppliers.
     
  11. wdavis009

    wdavis009 Well-Known Member

    It sounds to me like your customer demanded you be let go, and given the previous run-in with the vp the company wasn't willing to go to bat for you.
     
  12. GixxerBlade

    GixxerBlade Oh geez

    Probably rules and regulations that HR has hidden in some deep dark dungeon stating employment practices and procedures for firing people.
     
  13. jigmoore

    jigmoore Banned

    nope. i asked that directly. he said they didn't call for me to go.

    matter of fact the director of north american purchasing at that customer once stated about a year ago that my presentation (on a problem we had there) was the most thoroughly investigated, properly reacted to, and professionally presented he has ever seen.
     
  14. Cliffy

    Cliffy Well-Known Member

    So approach the customer for a job so you can become a pain in the ass of your old employer.

    On a side note take what they give you and move on if your company has their own legal dept. I spent 6 months unemployed then started my own business, 2 years later I am making the same maybe more money and got no where pursing any legal remedy, mainly because no attorney is going to be willing to work for free on an unemployment case, it simply doesn't pay as well as ambulance chasing or class action lawsuits.

    There are some decent attorneys out there, Doyle being one of them that was very helpful, but locally I could find no one with the confidence to manage an employment law case. (On a side note we were facing a Class I railroad)
     
  15. GixxerBlade

    GixxerBlade Oh geez

    Admit it Jiggy. You are a shitbag employee, that's why you were fired. You are hard to get along with and you eat pie. What more can be said? :D
     
  16. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Ooooh! You are that Cliffy!

    Yeah, and I though you had a good retaliation case. Pity that nobody would take it and run with it.
     
  17. Cliffy

    Cliffy Well-Known Member

    ssshhhhhhhhhh;)
     
  18. wdavis009

    wdavis009 Well-Known Member

    +1

    Call and send resumes to all your customers.
     
  19. Team Atomic

    Team Atomic Go Go SOX!

    Do you have the details of the severance package in writing?
     
  20. cav115

    cav115 Well-Known Member

    Sorry to hear, Jig. You`ll make something happen. If you decide to move south, I can hook you up with some good opportunities. Best wishes!
     

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