"new 2-strokes"

[C.Joy]

As a trackscratching newbie I do have one question. Is there any manufacturer besides Aprilla currently making a new 2stroker available in the USA? Also, I was wondering what experiences people have had with the Aprilla 250. How long are the top-ends good for, so on and so forth. Any replies are appreciated.

[Jack]

You're talking production street bike or GP roadracer? The TZ125 and 250 Yamahas and the RS125 and 250 Hondas are available. http://www.rscycles.com has listings of new bikes. They come with spares kits, stands and such. The 125s are around $9,500. RS also has some minis and last I checked an NSR500 Honda going for $90,000.

Jack

[Bill Cole]

The Aprilia RS 250 is a good bike. We had one and ran it to the recommended service interval that we were told by the Aprilia service rep. Man was he wrong. At 1400 miles the engine blew sky hi!. The Aprilia is not easy to work on. While not as hard as a 4 stroke it is NOT as easy as a RS Honda it Yamaha TZ. THe Aprilia will require a crank at about 1400 miles. The will last longer but the go out of phase at around this milage. Top ends should be replaced at 5-700 miles. Longer and you may hook a ring and do what we did. The up side is that Aprilia parts are CHEAP!!! I mean REAL CHEAP. I think a crank is in the $3-400 range if not even less. You will have availability problems. Seems like this is the big problem with them now.

If you can afford it look into the real GP bikes like the Honda RS or Yamaha TZ. If cost is an issue the Aprilia is a good substitute. It will never be a real GP bike however.

Bill Cole

[YamahaRick]

I still cannot believe people say the Aprilia is a "good bike" when also mentioning GP bikes. NOTE: THE APRILIA IS A (NOT-FOR-USA-USE) STREET BIKE, NOT A GP BIKE!!!

The Aprilia is a production street bike that is NOT LEGAL FOR USE on public streets in the US. You CANNOT get it legally registered.

Regarding race use only, comparing the Aprilia to RS Hondas and TZ Yamahas is like comparing a production Ford Taurus to a NASCAR Taurus ... sure, they both have four wheels and look similar, but that is all.

If you want to ride a genuine two stroke GP racer, buy a Honda RS or Yamaha TZ.

And Bill, rscycles.com has TZ125 cranks for about 300 dollars. Therefore, it appears that Aprilia parts are about the same as others.

Aprilia used to have an attractive contingency program, but that no longer exists for WERA racers. One thing to note is that if you want a race bike with a horn on it, the Aprilia comes with one. Sam Fleming put it to good use one time at Road Atlanta.

[Rusnak_322]

Are you sure about the 1400 mile cranks?
That sounds like a GP not a street bike.

[gpracer15]

I must object to the fact that the Aprilia cannot be a street bike in the US. There are many ways to get around the DMV to recieve a title. I have done it on two different occasions. I registered an RGV250 no problem, no inspection either. As for it being a GP bike, no way. Its is fun but a RS125 would smoke it!!!

[racer444novice]

I have to agree on the RS smoking it thing.

At Mido-Ohio AMA grand champinoships this past July, I walked all over the Aprillia 250's in the corners and 3/4 of the way down the back stretch I was around him. Only advantage I seen was that he had more low end power, which I assume was from the 'street' gearing in the gearbox. They useually got me out of the corners but I had him on breaks, cornering, and top end.
Heck, the bike weights twice the RS.

Go with a "real" GP bike if you want to run GP.
Tom
<just my 2 cents>

[Bill Cole]

Ok want to slam, here we go. You have missed the customer base that is buying the majority of Aprilias. They are NOT experianced riders/racers like yourself Rick, they are entry level riders that are trying to get into racing/track riding on something other than a 4 stroke. They also for the most part do not have the mechanical ability for a full blown GP bike. They also do not have the budget.

The Aprilia is NOT a GP bike as I have very clearly stated. It is however a gas and go bike that has the same geometry rake and trail of a GP bike. It is about 60 lbs overweight and 25 hp under powered. It also has great brakes. It is however a very fun bike to ride and you can only gas and go if you like. I think for the entry level person this is of great value.

Yes you need to put a crank in an Aprilia at about 1400 miles. I know that many of you folks have far greater time on yours and that is up to you. The cranks are cheap and are going out of phase at this milage. Don't believe me ask Himmelsback. When they blow they blow big... I have seen MANY let go and it isnt pritty... For a street aplication of this motor I would expect 3-5000 miles from the crank. However if you are fast and are riding an aprilia at a top level you are twisting the shit out of this thing all the time. Racing signifacantly shortens life expectancy 2 or 4 stroke engines...

Rick... Comparing a 125 crank to a 250 crank does't even make sence. Yes a 125 crank is $300.. A TZ 250 crank is $1200.. The Aprilia 250 crank at about $300 is a bargin.. Lets get apples to apples here...

Sorry about this but you really pissed me off here. We have had one and have alot of experiance with them. Do you have one? have you ever ridden one? For what the Aprilia is being used for it is a great bike. My teamate raced one for a year and has just purchased a 2000 Honda RS 250. What he learned on the Aprilia has been very valuble and he feels much better about jumping onto the Honda.

Bill Cole
WERA#72

[Jack]

I agree here that the Aprilia is a good option for the beginner, but man, I had NO idea the cranks were this fragile. But, it stands to reason. The things DO make, what, over fifty ponies. They are heavier, but the old parallel twin TZs from 20+ years ago that I used to ride were 60 horsepower or so and they went really well, well enough to have great fun on. Their cranks went maybe 600 miles, I blew a lot of them so I know. And they were about $500 back then! Three hundred is a bagain for a 250 crank, fer sure.

It just sort of surprises me that the Aprilia's crank is so fragile. The old RDs, street bikes, could be flogged forever and never blow a crank, but they only spun up around 8,000 rpm stock. Push that to 10,500 and they turned into fragmenting grenades. The caged ball bearings had to be replaced by rollers from the TZ. So, I suppose, there really is a price to pay for fifty ponies in a street 250 even now days. I'd marveled at a street 250 that could push horsepower numbers of the old TZs, but now I'm a little less impressed. Who wants to go changing out the crank on their street bike before the plugs wear out?! Still, they are a great alternative in a two stroke racer to the pure GP stuff, especially for the newbie. At LEAST I guess you don't have the jetting hassles and such of the GP stuff, a little more turn key.

Jack

[Bill Cole]

Jack the big issue with the cranks is how you want to run them. If you run them with the jetting they come with you will have a crank that will be happy for quite some time. I would guess that it could be good for up to 2500-3000mi. However, if you jet the bike lean to make some power it will kill the crank much earlier. It is a little give and take. We tried to run it a little rich for practice and lean it a bit for the race. With some MR-1 VP fuel the dyno is recording up to 66hp at the F-usa events. With the 63 hp limit we mix pump gas with it until the desired hp reading is gotten.

THe crank thing is not to alarm anyone. It is just our experiance and that the Aprilia guys are trying to sell bikes and not giving realistic information. Running TZ's and RS's we have found the value of putting a 2 stoke on a routine maintenance schedule. In the long run it is much more cost effective. Out engine ate over $1000 worth of perfectly good non maintenance related parts when it blew.

Hope this helps.

Bill Cole
WERA#72

[YamahaRick]

Bill, you are right in pointing out my error ... I was indeed quoting the price of a TZ125 crank; not a TZ250. But I was also comparing the TZ125 to the Aprilia.

I'm still not a fan of the Aprilias.

[Bill Cole]

Rick, Someone at your level should not be a fan of the Aprilia. It is not intended for you or me for that matter. I really dont like them either as I have noted. They are hard to work on but need much less work. They don,t fight back and require much less time. For an entry level person that needs to work on riding it is a good choice. It makes the transition to a true GP bike that much better.

Thanks for your opinion...

Bill Cole
#72

[VitoDuc19]

As an Aprilia fan, and owner, I agree with Bill. Mine bike has approximately 3000-3500 miles on it and has been very low maintenance. Replacing the top-end is quite a bit more work than on an Honda RS250 (which I've done more than a few times), +4 hours because of all the stuff that needs to get out of the way. I'm about ready to replace the crank, it's out right now getting trued. I PAID $405 for a brand new in the box crank, a very good deal as far as cranks go. WOW, Bill I'm surprised at the crank life expectancy, 1400 miles! Being a two-stroke neophyte I guess I don't realize the signs that a crank is going out of phase. Maybe I wouldn't take it to the track for one final race weekend until the crank comes.

The benefit to Aprilia racing is that you can get a bunch of track time, and still learn how to race a two-stroke (which is a blast and that's coming from a diehard Ducati guy). You can race in the sportsman's series, D-Super, LWT, F2, even HWT and F2 Nationals for a good ass whooping.

Vito

[TwoCycler]

Bill & Rick,

Sorry, but you guys gave me a good laugh. I have very mixed emotions about the Aprilia. I think it is a fairly pretty bike, and of course I like it because it is a two stroke. On the other hand, it is pricey and I think its a shame that after paying $8500 or whatever they are new, you get a 12 year old motor to work with.

If the bike had the 70 degree RGV motor instead of the 90 degree it would have alot more potential. As it is, its a bike that kind of falls between the cracks of various classes, except for FUSA stuff.

I have gotten 10,000-15,000 miles out of those cranks on the street. They are cheaply made compared to a RS or TZ crank though. The thing that bothers me about the motor is the gearbox that is very weak and has poorly spaced internal ratios for racing.

To each his own.

Rocky Stargel

[gpracer15]

My 92 RGV was fun but I had trouble with the 3 piece power valves. The pin that held it together usually wore the hole it sat in into a oval and let the middle piece come down. One time it was actually hitting the piston slightly and there was shavings in the housing. By the way, Suzuki was real proud of those things $$$$$. Padgets had some but they were costly too.

[C.Joy]

I would like to thank everyone for their informative comments. To give a little history, I have yet to set foot on a track. I wait with great anticipation the November class Ed Bargy is going to put on. My goal is to find an affordable, servicable, reliable machine to run. I have a CBR 600 now but am unsure wether or not I want to turn it into a track mule. I race smokers in the woods and mx and prefer their simplicity. Even if I go smokeless I would still hope to run into some of you folks during the 2002 season and relish my 2stroke roots.

[CharlieM#90]

Originally posted by C.Joy:
...Even if I go smokeless I would still hope to run into some of you folks during the 2002 season.....

Ummmm......not exactly the best choice of words - that "run into" bit. http://www.wera.com/ubb/smile.gif

Charlie Mc #90

[C.Joy]

Charlie, after careful review, I would have to agree that it was a poor choice of words.

[Team Road Rage]

The best 2-stoke to start on is a Honda NSR 250. It is a very dependable forgiving motorcycle. Maintenance is easy. We didn't change a jet all season. Just keep an eye on the temperature. With a good service the bike will be trouble free all season.

I had 4 of them. I now have one left $4,000. Built by Able Harc Pro in Japan. You can run well with SV650's. If you want my last one let me know.

After 3 season I bought myself a RS 250. I am sort of nervous about my purchase. It is going to be a lot of work and the thing will high side you with no notice. Don't get a full blown gp to start out on.

Best of luck,

Bryan Hoelzer #413

[Roach]

I own two Aprilia RS250 cup bikes, and a TZ250. The Aprilias are sort of "GP Lite" bikes.

Um... I really *like* racing my Aprilia, and Laura (g-friend) loves hers as well. No, it's not as fast as my TZ, and no, it doesn't corner like my TZ... but that doesn't make it less fun to ride.

It's also very competative at the club level. I'm not the fastest guy out there by far, yet I somehow manage to often run top-5 Expert on my cup bike in the LW classes. Put someone faster on it (like Brian Kcraget for example, who rides Laura's at F-USA events) and you'd see it up front.

And it's a hell of a lot more fun to ride than an SV650 http://www.wera.com/ubb/smile.gif Cheaper too if you look at buying an SV and prepping it (suspension, bodywork, clip-ons, etc, etc) vs. buying an Aprilia and painting number plates on it - which is all I did to mine.

Add to this the over $4k we've won at two F-USA events this year (VIR and Poccono, going to Daytona in Oct) and the money that Aprilia offers to club racers (WERA never followed up, CCS has it in place), and it's a VERY attractive motorcycle to race.

Just my $.02 as always

- Roach

[Bill Cole]

Roach, That is a good perspective of the Aprilia. And congradulations to Brian and you on your results.

Bill C

[C.Joy]

You know, I'm glad to see so many people still interested in 2 stroke racing. It's a shame that more dealers aren't involved with GP. From what I've seen there appears to be a dedicated niche market. I'm definitely looking into the RS125. Has anyone had any experience with Thousand Oaks Honda.

[C-Par]

I knew Roach had something to say about the Aprilia. I'm still trying to play my cards and if things go well, 2-smoker for me next year.