I need some tire info

[reknelb]

I'm having a hard time finding tires for my RD 400. I used k591s on my 550, and I liked them. It seems like the tire of choice are Avons. I know the am22-23s come in a sprint compound, but I can't go any wider than a 100 in the front, and a 120 in the rear.
Has anyone heard anything on the Dulop gt501s? Are they track worthy or just a street tire?

[Diesel]

Originally posted by reknelb:
It seems like the tire of choice are Avons. I know the am22-23s come in a sprint compound, but I can't go any wider than a 100 in the front, and a 120 in the rear.

[Diesel]

Oops, I was in too much of a rush.

Anyway, Avons are great tires and are the most popular choice. Buff uses Dunlops but not the horrible K591's. I'm sure he'll chime in and let you know which ones are good. As for the width, I'm not sure what rim widths are legal for the RD classes but if your using stock width rims, don't go more than one size beyond what was originally fitted.

Despite the Pontiac adds claiming "E Ahu Laula"... wider isn't always better.

[Thumper]

I use the Avons on my SRX and love them. The front is a 90 and the rear is a 120. I am dragging the exhust, peg and knee with no signs of sliding. They last pretty well too. I got 4 weekends on a set turning 1:10 at Talladega. When they did start sliding it was predictably. I've changed to FZR wheels and am having trouble finding matching tires for the 110-17 front and 140-18 rear (times dropped to 1:08). I've got the last 17" that Avon made so I'm going to try to make it last as long as possible.

[YamahaRick]

I don't know what rim size you are using, but on my Formula RD bike with OEM RD350 spoked wheels, I have 90/90 and 110/80 Avon's on them.

My tires, as well as the bike set up, was performed by Lyn Garland of Vintage Specialies. He's an RD ace with plenty of resources and expertise. You can contact him at VINTSPCLTY@aol.com.

[reknelb]

thanks for the info guys. sounds like Avons are it. Thumper, are those tires u use super venoms? (AM20,AM18) I've noticed Avon lists all their models and sizes, then they have a section listed as vintage race tires which consists of different models and sizes. are the vintage race tires a different compound than the tires listed by models?

[reknelb]

Thumper, my friends all use Mich. pilot race tires on thier 600s. They make a 110/70-17 in soft and intermediate compounds. They love them. Might want to give them a try after that Avons done. they are around $100 for a front at MAW accwhse.com

[Thumper]

Yes, Super Venom. I would like to try the Pilots but the rear 18" is not available. I don't know what mixing bias ply rear with a radial front will do to the handling. May give a pull off a try just to find out.

[Greg Gabis]

Can't help with the RD350, but since Wil needs help with the SRX...

Wil, have you tried Bridgestones yet? The "hot" setup (at least last year) is the BT58 front and the BT56SS rear. This is the mix on my SRX right now (The previous owner was fast and won races on this mix) and other FZR riders (with stock FZR wheels) have been known to use that setup also. If you have further questions, drop me an email. Also, you can contact stickboy (Derek). He's selling 'stones in the SE this year.

[Thumper]

Thanks Greg. Looks like we'll be rolling 'stones this season http://www.wera.com/ubb/biggrin.gif . Hope it doesn't leave me between a rock and a hard place. Sorry, that was just for the pun of it.

[reknelb]

Originally posted by Thumper:
I use the Avons on my SRX and love them. The front is a 90 and the rear is a 120. I am dragging the exhust, peg and knee with no signs of sliding. They last pretty well too. I got 4 weekends on a set turning 1:10 at Talladega. When they did start sliding it was predictably. I've changed to FZR wheels and am having trouble finding matching tires for the 110-17 front and 140-18 rear (times dropped to 1:08). I've got the last 17" that Avon made so I'm going to try to make it last as long as possible.

just bought some Avons. Can't believe how soft they are. I must have been nuts to go out on Dunlops. they're cement compared to these. Thanks again.

[footwork]

just bought some Avons. Can't believe how soft they are. I must have been nuts to go out on Dunlops. they're cement compared to these. Thanks again.[/QUOTE]


I have told so many people to beware of the 591's. They are not a good race tire. I too was guilty when I started. The Avons are fantastic tires no question. The Dunlop K124 series is really a great tire also. You may spend more though.

[Thumper580]

Originally posted by reknelb:
I'm having a hard time finding tires for my RD 400. I used k591s on my 550, and I liked them. It seems like the tire of choice are Avons. I know the am22-23s come in a sprint compound, but I can't go any wider than a 100 in the front, and a 120 in the rear.
Has anyone heard anything on the Dulop gt501s? Are they track worthy or just a street tire?

The Dunlop K591 are great Tires. Been racing with them for years. The Avons are fine when NEW, but as soon as they get a few races on them they turn hard (cooked). Unlike the 591's when the AVONs slide,they go all the way with little warning. The Dunlpos never seem to loose their predictable nature even with numerous races on them. I'm trying the new GT501's right now. Only have one race on them and so far really good performance. Think about whether you want your tires to be consistent over the haul or great for a couple of races and then put you on your head without warning. Just a thought.

[reknelb]

Let me know how you like the 501s. I can get them dirt cheap compared to Avons. Dunlop plant is only 20 mins. away and I have a couple friends who work there. What bike do you ride? I ride an RD 400, it's pretty light so I was worried about getting the 591s warm enough. I was on a 550 inline-4. About 100lbs heavier than the RD. The 591s worked pretty good on that, and lasted a long time.

[Diesel]

Originally posted by Thumper580:
...when the AVONs slide,they go all the way with little warning... Think about whether you want your tires to be consistent over the haul or great for a couple of races and then put you on your head without warning.




My Avons have been very predictable, even with 12 races on them. I ride mine <b>hard</b> to the point where they are shredded and have discolored to purple and blue yet they are consistent and very predictable when breaking loose and sliding while in mid turn. I have yet to crash because the Avons have given out. There is a reason why <b>top vintage racers</b> don't use the K591s. In fact, there is only won racer I know of who loves his Dunlops but he uses the TT100s or KR124s and will tell you straight out that the K591s are crap.

But hey, what do championship winning racers know?

[boaide]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thumper580:
[B] The Dunlop K591 are great Tires. Been racing with them for years. The Avons are fine when NEW, but as soon as they get a few races on them they turn hard (cooked).

I disagree, running 6 races plus GNF, the Avon fronts on my F-500 RD-350 and V-2 TD-3 last two+ seasons. The rear lasts 1 and a half seasons sometimes 2. They need some warming as they get older but they feel like new after a lap.

Ciao,

Fred

[Thumper580]

Originally posted by Diesel:

My Avons have been very predictable, even with 12 races on them. I ride mine <b>hard</b> to the point where they are shredded and have discolored to purple and blue yet they are consistent and very predictable when breaking loose and sliding while in mid turn. I have yet to crash because the Avons have given out. There is a reason why <b>top vintage racers</b> don't use the K591s. In fact, there is only won racer I know of who loves his Dunlops but he uses the TT100s or KR124s and will tell you straight out that the K591s are crap.

But hey, what do championship winning racers know?


Actually I know a fair amount....My comments are based on the fact that I won the 2000 CCS SuperSingles Class Championship. Running a 1980 Yamaha SR 500 against alot of MuZ 660's. Any other questions ??

[still novice]

[/b][/QUOTE]
Actually I know a fair amount....My comments are based on the fact that I won the 2000 CCS SuperSingles Class Championship. Running a 1980 Yamaha SR 500 against alot of MuZ 660's. Any other questions ??

[/B][/QUOTE
AMEN on the AVONs much better than 591's. Riding my EX500, I was running off the edge and sliding big time. BT96 Bridgestones cured that. Now I'm running AM22/23 on my SR with great results. Avons seem to have the same grip as race compound BT96, just take alittle longer to scuff and warm up.
The question I have is :
what did you do to the SR to run with Muz?

[Thumper580]

Originally posted by still novice:

Actually I know a fair amount....My comments are based on the fact that I won the 2000 CCS SuperSingles Class Championship. Running a 1980 Yamaha SR 500 against alot of MuZ 660's. Any other questions ??

[/b][/QUOTE
AMEN on the AVONs much better than 591's. Riding my EX500, I was running off the edge and sliding big time. BT96 Bridgestones cured that. Now I'm running AM22/23 on my SR with great results. Avons seem to have the same grip as race compound BT96, just take alittle longer to scuff and warm up.
The question I have is :
what did you do to the SR to run with Muz?[/B][/QUOTE]

90mm JE piston, shaved head, ported and flowed, titanium valves, lightened flywheel, lighter XT crank, 40mm Dellorto carb, custom exhaust, etc. lots of dyno time, being consistent and riding it like I stole it.

[boaide]

[/b][/QUOTE]
Actually I know a fair amount....My comments are based on the fact that I won the 2000 CCS SuperSingles Class Championship. Running a 1980 Yamaha SR 500 against alot of MuZ 660's. Any other questions ??

[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, were you one of the two guys on thumpers that I passed in the F-500 race at Summit a few weeks ago. I was on a fully faired white RD-350, #669. On Avons. :-)

Ciao,

Fred

[lizard84]

My, My . Seems everyone is a bit of a bitch(My tire it better then your tire) when it comes to our tires.

Take all the various brand tires you are running, pull them off on a Sat morning & throw them in a pile & tell everyone to grab a set that fits but they can't grab the same brand they had & the racers that were winning before will be the ones that are still winning the races.

I'm not saying you would like the tire, but if you were running at the front before. You would still be at the front with "shit set"

[still novice]

Originally posted by lizard84:
My, My . Seems everyone is a bit of a bitch(My tire it better then your tire) when it comes to our tires.

Take all the various brand tires you are running, pull them off on a Sat morning & throw them in a pile & tell everyone to grab a set that fits but they can't grab the same brand they had & the racers that were winning before will be the ones that are still winning the races.

I'm not saying you would like the tire, but if you were running at the front before. You would still be at the front with "shit set"


You must be used to running in front.....I hope to get used to it too http://www.wera.com/ubb/smile.gif

[still novice]

Originally posted by Thumper580:
90mm JE piston, shaved head, ported and flowed, titanium valves, lightened flywheel, lighter XT crank, 40mm Dellorto carb, custom exhaust, etc. lots of dyno time, being consistent and riding it like I stole it.What kind of compression are you getting with shaved head? Also, are you able to spin that motor alot more and make alot more power on top without granading it? This is my first year out on the SR, so I got alot to learn here.

[Thumper580]

Originally posted by still novice:
Originally posted by Thumper580:
90mm JE piston, shaved head, ported and flowed, titanium valves, lightened flywheel, lighter XT crank, 40mm Dellorto carb, custom exhaust, etc. lots of dyno time, being consistent and riding it like I stole it.What kind of compression are you getting with shaved head? Also, are you able to spin that motor alot more and make alot more power on top without granading it? This is my first year out on the SR, so I got alot to learn here.



Compression is 12:1. Make sure you replace the pot metal cylinder nuts with steel ones, otherwise cylinder separation is quite possible. I don't turn it any higher than 7000 rpm. Seems to be where the power flattens out so no need to go any higher. Good luck.

[Thumper580]

Originally posted by boaide:

Actually I know a fair amount....My comments are based on the fact that I won the 2000 CCS SuperSingles Class Championship. Running a 1980 Yamaha SR 500 against alot of MuZ 660's. Any other questions ??

[/b][/QUOTE]
Was that in practice or during the race
:-)..This is the ago old discussion that also applies to pipes, shocks, etc, etc...If it works for you then it's the right one, no matter what anyone else is using. Good luck.

Yeah, were you one of the two guys on thumpers that I passed in the F-500 race at Summit a few weeks ago. I was on a fully faired white RD-350, #669. On Avons. :-)

Ciao,

Fred

[/B][/QUOTE]

[still novice]

Originally posted by Thumper580:

Are you comming up to Nelson Ledges in June?

[boaide]

Originally posted by Thumper580:


Just pulling your chain, no offense intended. But the first five places in F-500 at Summit were Maryland riders (I was one of them), kind of unusual. So either I passed you or you didn't pass me, since you are from Virginia.

Are you doing AHRMA at Summit Memorial Day weekend, given the debacle at Rausch Creek? If so, please introduce yourself. I will apologize for my witty retort. No. 669 two white Yamaha 2-strokes.

Ciao,

Fred

[lizard84]

Originally posted by still novice:
Originally posted by lizard84:



You must be used to running in front.....I hope to get used to it too http://www.wera.com/ubb/smile.gif



Who me? I'm just a slow old sandbagger...

[still novice]

Originally posted by lizard84:
Who me? I'm just a slow old sandbagger...
don't get all modest on me now....i still need some lessons in sandbagging and cherrypicking...

[Thumper580]

Originally posted by boaide:
Just pulling your chain, no offense intended. But the first five places in F-500 at Summit were Maryland riders (I was one of them), kind of unusual. So either I passed you or you didn't pass me, since you are from Virginia.

Are you doing AHRMA at Summit Memorial Day weekend, given the debacle at Rausch Creek? If so, please introduce yourself. I will apologize for my witty retort. No. 669 two white Yamaha 2-strokes.

Ciao,

Fred


I didn't know anything the AHRMA event at Summit. Let me know the details and I'd like to check it out. Do you have to join AHRMA?? If so what are the costs? Thanks. I hope to make it. WERA # 62

[boaide]

[/b][/QUOTE]
I didn't know anything the AHRMA event at Summit. Let me know the details and I'd like to check it out. Do you have to join AHRMA?? If so what are the costs? Thanks. I hope to make it. WERA # 62

[/B][/QUOTE]

Yes you need an AHRMA racing license, it's about 100 bucks or so. They accept a WERA license as proof of experience but you still need an AHRMA license. Races are 40 (at Summit) bucks per class (Daytona and others are more).

At this late date you should probably call AHRMA as they have a "pre-registration" rule. Oh, the other downside is that you have to be an AMA member as the races are sanctioned by the AMA. You can join the AMA at the track, I am told.

The races are on Sunday and Monday. Saturday is a practice day, but I forget what it costs.

There is a Vintage MX event and a vintage bike "festival" over the weekend too, so it might be interesting just for that.

Until Rausch Creek was cancelled I was going to do Rausch Creek with WERA on Saturday and drive to Summit on Saturday evening to do AHRMA Sunday and Monday.

Ciao,

Fred

[Diesel]

reknelb - I suggested Avon's because they obviously work for many vintage racers throughout the world. The K591s may work for you and your riding style like they've worked for Thumper580 but is it worth the risk in taking the advise of one person versus the wisdom of many vintage racers?


Originally posted by Thumper580:

Actually I know a fair amount....My comments are based on the fact that I won the 2000 CCS SuperSingles Class Championship. Running a 1980 Yamaha SR 500 against alot of MuZ 660's. Any other questions ??


Congratulations! Just think, though, what you could've done on a set of Avons! http://www.wera.com/ubb/smile.gif

Originally posted by lizard84:

Take all the various brand tires you are running, pull them off on a Sat morning & throw them in a pile & tell everyone to grab a set that fits but they can't grab the same brand they had & the racers that were winning before will be the ones that are still winning the races.
I'm not saying you would like the tire, but if you were running at the front before. You would still be at the front with "shit set".

I would definitely have to disagree. I ran a set of Avon street tires on a stock Honda 360 my novice season (yea, I know... old story but still poignant) during which I learned the meaning of greasy. I had a fun time dicing with yammy R5's and built Honda 350's but cornering speeds were limited due to the tires I had. Last season I ran a Honda 175 on race compound Avons and ended up leaving the previous years' competitors way behind. Tires DO matter and WILL have a profound affect on results. Maybe not in cases where the difference in riders abilities are at extremes (i.e. me against Dave Roper) but in cases of near equal abilities, the one with the better equipment will have the upper hand.

[lizard84]

Originally posted by Diesel:
reknelb -


I would definitely have to disagree.



Well lets see. I've run & won on.

591 Dunlop front with a Metzeler ME99a rear.

Metzeler Me 33 front & rear (rear was run reversed fearing rain which did not come)

Me 33 front, Dunlop 155/17 rear slick

Street Avon AV 27 front. Same dunlop slick.

Hold on, now it gets strange.

Same avon AV 27 on rear reversed with a bridgestone slick front.( older 125 tire made for rear)

Same Bridgestone slicks, this time front & rear. got alot of , Boy those tires sure are skinny!

And just to make you feel better. Race avons front & rear. Only race this combo 4 times, All in the rain. And I LOVE racing in the rain.

What to make of all this? Who knows.

But when you have only been racing 1 or 2 years & you start leaving behind those you have been racing with . Its a sure sign your getting your shit together.

So I say, Good job & keep up the good work!!

[Diesel]

Why is it that the consistant winners and champions are so careful about bike setup and the parts they use yet a lot of BBSers disclaim their importance? If tires don't really matter or there isn't that much difference between them, don't you think
there would be more top level racers with Cheng Shin or IRC manufacturers' hats and t-shirts? "Yea, the Plastico Krakt-X rear tire that I used on the front and the one I found under a mattress at the junkyard really performed flawlessly" is something you don't hear for good reason.

I really wish I could believe that my successes are due to my improved riding skills alone but I don't believe in blowing smoke up my own ass. Yes, I've learned how to be a better racer but more importantly, I've learned how to build a bike that is competitive and allows me to exploit my talents to the fullest.

Sure I can attribute my successes to my spiderman underoos with the skid mark... such as almost winning the Southeast Championship in my novice year on a stock bike with street tires while racing against more powerful bikes piloted by expert level racers. But of course I wouldn't mention that I was the only one to show up for all of the races and therefore racked up a shit load of points from my many last or next to last place finishes. I placed second nationally last year in the Lightweight Classic Class but of course I won't mention that, realistically, there were only two honest to goodness contenders to compete against. Am I down on myself? Hell no! I know I'm an above average racer, I just won't pat myself on the back for empty victories or build my reputation like a straw house.

Almost everybody has a win they can talk about or an "I was in the running" story. What speaks volumes is if you're a consistant front runner and winner whether it was your good day or an off day. This alone indicates who possesses talent and skill both on the track and in the garage. The racers I know who fit this profile spend a great deal of time and effort on their bikes and don't compromise on parts. They don't have sponsors or get contingency from manufacturers that may impact their decision on what parts to use.
Call me foolish but I think I'll cover all of my bases and use what works time and time again.

[boaide]

Originally posted by Diesel:
[B] B]

Diesel makes a good point and with respect to tires if you have a limited budget in my opinion with the exception of safety gear and brakes few other expenses take precedence over tires.

Ciao,

Fred

[lizard84]

Originally posted by Diesel:
Why is it that the consistant winners and champions are so careful about bike setup and the parts they use yet a lot of BBSers disclaim their importance? If tires don't really matter or there isn't that much difference between them, don't you think
there would be more top level racers with Cheng Shin or IRC manufacturers' hats and t-shirts? "Yea, the Plastico Krakt-X rear tire that I used on the front and the one I found under a mattress at the junkyard really performed flawlessly" is something you don't hear for good reason.

I really wish I could believe that my successes are due to my improved riding skills alone but I don't believe in blowing smoke up my own ass. Yes, I've learned how to be a better racer but more importantly, I've learned how to build a bike that is competitive and allows me to exploit my talents to the fullest.

Sure I can attribute my successes to my spiderman underoos with the skid mark... such as almost winning the Southeast Championship in my novice year on a stock bike with street tires while racing against more powerful bikes piloted by expert level racers. But of course I wouldn't mention that I was the only one to show up for all of the races and therefore racked up a shit load of points from my many last or next to last place finishes. I placed second nationally last year in the Lightweight Classic Class but of course I won't mention that, realistically, there were only two honest to goodness contenders to compete against. Am I down on myself? Hell no! I know I'm an above average racer, I just won't pat myself on the back for empty victories or build my reputation like a straw house.

Almost everybody has a win they can talk about or an "I was in the running" story. What speaks volumes is if you're a consistant front runner and winner whether it was your good day or an off day. This alone indicates who possesses talent and skill both on the track and in the garage. The racers I know who fit this profile spend a great deal of time and effort on their bikes and don't compromise on parts. They don't have sponsors or get contingency from manufacturers that may impact their decision on what parts to use.
Call me foolish but I think I'll cover all of my bases and use what works time and time again.

Man oh man, you do love to type.

Tires do matter & nothing beats new tires.
Look back at my post, I'm saying, in most cases. If the guy that won on fresh Avons would take them off & mount up fresh 591s & then rerun the race he would still win or if not run at the front.

Myself, I've never won anything, running at the front? whats that? I can tell you what the front of my truck looks like(if you don't let me near the beer). I work hard at trying to stay out of other peoples way. Hell, most times, I have to turn back after heading to the track because I forgot to load the bike. http://www.wera.com/ubb/smile.gif