Going to War

[chaplain]

I'm very torn today. My faith tells me that preemptive war is an error. 2000 years of Christian theology teaches us that only defensive war, like our response to 9/11, is permissable as servents of Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace. Every major Christian group in the world including the Roman Catholic Church, The United Methodist Church, and the National Council of Churches USA representing many Christian bodies nationwide and worldwide have and continue to appeal for peace and avoid armed conflict. We are called liberals and cowards for our stance. To the contrary, I consider us brave to stand up for what God has been trying to teach us to do for generations, become peacemakers. (Matthew chapter 5).

Yet my son is in the U S Army Reserves and has been called to duty, God only knows where. His wife and three year old daughter do not even know where he has been assigned.

So while I'll continue to oppose the war. I'll support my son and his comrades, and pray for the day when humanity can grow up enough to put our sticks and stone aside and quit hitting each other. I hope all will join me in prayer for a quick end to this conflict. If the war continues, we'll have a special prayer at the Chapel Service at the WERA National at Jennings. We'll pray for peace, for those in the conflict and for anything else you would like to pray for.

Grace and Peace

Rev. Tim Burleson, Chaplain to the WERA National Series

[RoadRacerX]

Tim,

My heart breaks for you, and I will pray for your son. Although I disagree, I think of you as neither liberal nor coward. I just want this whole deal over ASAP. Whatever the outcome, God is still in control. Peace be with you.

[RSDad]

"...pray for the day when humanity can grow up enough to put our sticks and stone aside and quit hitting each other."

Very well said. I hope that whatever occurs is over with quickly and that as few of God's children are harmed as possible. I hope and pray that you see your son very soon.

[dave333]

My thoughts and prayers do indeed go out to all the servicemen and women who are now in harms way. May our merciful and loving Lord keep them safe and bring them home to us.

I do not believe this action is as preemptive as you would say, we are threatened and have been attacked in our homes and at our places of work. If you play well in the sandbox with others, God ordained nations and governments are there to assist you. If you cause problems, they are ordained to punish you. Our President is a God appointed, God fearing man who needs our support and prayers at this time. Please remember him as you remember our sons and daughters...

[Laurie Acree]

Tim, what is your sons name?

[Congo2]

Chaplain-
I support all the troops and unfortunately it does not look like a peaceful ending is in sight. I hope everything works out.

What do you think can be done to stop the killing that occurs in Iraq? There are all sorts of independent documentation of the Iraq leadership murdering & torturing people, changing natural habitats which adversly effect the people that live off the land.

You mention many of the churches and the beliefs on war. What are your feelings of the various churches history of conducting 'holy wars' and killing people solely based on religion or ethinic make up?:confused:

not trying to stir the pot, just looking for good discussion and opinions.

[mrbillydee]

I don't understand how so many people do not support what the President is doing. I spent 6 years on active duty in the Marines and served proudly. There is no way that I want my service to this Country to be nullified by some cheeseball in another country supporting terrorist and producing weapons to be used on us and our allies. To everyone against this war, what do you think should be done??? nothing??? You think we should just leave Saddam alone and let him plot against us? Our government, contrary to popular belief, knows ALOT more about his actions and capabilities than any of these protesters. Trust me, if we left him alone, 911 would be nothing compared to what the future would hold. The only problem I have with what we are doing is that it took this long.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I had to get that out.

[thuxley]

Originally posted by dave333
Our President is a God appointed, God fearing man who needs our support and prayers at this time.

What does "God appointed" mean? Is that just another way to say "born again" or does it mean that God appointed him to be president, or something else?

[chaplain]

Thanks for all the replies. Laurie, my son's name is Gabriel. Thanks for your concern

[PPR]

Well, I am for my freedom and for the war. The sleeping giant has been peaceful and diplomatic for way to long. Other nations take our kindness for weakness so people end up dying anyway just as 3000 or so did at the trade center.

There are some situations in life that cannot be resolved through peaceful dialogue. Regardless the amount of deliberation, stating that Saddam really didn’t mean the things that he does and he can be dealt with in a diplomatic manner is insane. This situation cannot be resolved peacefully. (Saddam does not want to change his regime or loose CONTROL) Some people only understand one thing, Violence. Diplomacy has worked so well in the last 12 years with Saddam I think we should give him even more time. That makes me sick to my stomach.

The peace protestors forget that you wouldn't have freedom today if my grandfather and others fathers and grandfathers wouldn't have fought for the country in the past. If you are not willing to defend your freedom and liberties that you have today then maybe you shouldn’t be here. (I am sure that France or Canada would love to have you)

[chaplain]

Thanks for your reply PPR. Please try to understand where Christian Pacifism comes from. It comes from the command of Christ to be peacemakers. It is not some blind pie in the sky idealistic worldview. It takes into account hard realities including the fact the war is a particularly destructive form of diplomacy. No matter how hard they try not to, combatants hit schools, hospitals, churches, old people and children, not to mention "friendly fire" incidents.

If we take the Bible seriously where it says "With God nothing shall be impossible" then there is a way other than fighting. We just have to be brave enough and smart enough to find it. Admiral Yamamoto, who directed the attack on Pearl Harbor was praised by his staff for his smart attack plan. He was quoted as replying "A smart man would find a way not to fight a war."

I pray for grace and peace for our country and for you and your family.

[sdiver]

I do have a few questions and comments:

Where was the Roman Catholic Church, The United Methodist Church, and the National Council of Churches USA, and their predecessors, prior to and during the Holocaust?

What was the Churches stance during the Crusades?

What was the Churches role in the Spanish Inquisition?

What about the Churches role in opposing the abolition of slavery in the US?

The Churches current role in the IRA?

The Churches role in Stalinist Russia?

I ask these things not to denigrate your views, but to ask legitimate questions of the role of organized religion on either side, support for or opposition to, wars or armed aggression. IMO, religious leaders can and do use religious contexts to support whichever side they agree with at the time.

BTW, Yamamoto's quote was not from some benevolent wish to avoid War, per se, but rather because he felt, correctly so, that attacking the US was a huge strategic mistake.

[MarkB]

The US troops are very lucky to have the public support that they have. I think it is vital that EVERYONE shows this support throughout the campaign. It is for this reason that I am so angry at people in the UK right now. This is a quote from the UK Daily Mirror there:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12742775&method=full&siteid=50143
One British officer, Lieutenant Colonel Ronnie McCourt, said: "We are ready to go. The last bits of the jigsaw are fitting into place. Obviously, we would prefer to have the unreserved, unqualified support of the British public, but nevertheless, we don't let that detract from what we are doing here. We get on with it.

"There have been times in history when we haven't had the full support of the public but we go and do the job."

Lt Col McCourt also said he had never seen such resolve among US forces. "What I have noticed is that the American service personnel have a strong sense of purpose - a stronger sense of purpose than I have known before.

"They feel they have got a proper mission to accomplish here and they will do it."




Says it all to me - I cannot imagine an american officer having to say the same. I wish the British public could show the same support the American public does - a soldier should not have to fight without it. I feel sorry for the British soldiers, some of whom I personally used to serve alongside who I know are there now. I feel I need to fly home and kick some peoples arses :rolleyes:

(rant over, carry on)

[Joss]

I am sometimes reminded of the deeply rleigious man caught in a flood.

As the water rose the National Guard came by with a truck but the man refuse to go. "The Lord will provide", the man said.

As the water rose higher, a Sheriff's deputy came by in a jon-boat but the man still would not leave. "The Lord will provide", the man said.

Finally, the water chased him to the very crest of his roof, and as he hung on only by his finger tips, a news chopper saw him and swung down to save him. True to his faith, however, the man said, "The Lord will provide", then was swept away and drowned.

In what seemed a mere moment he found himself before the Lord. To say the man was a little upset would be a real understatement. "Why, Lord, did you forsake me, one of your most faithful followers?"

And the Lord answered, "Forsake you? I sent you the National Guard, a deputy and a helicopter."

[PPR]

I agree Chaplin that every avenue should be taken prior to war but sometimes you are left with no choice and the plan must be fulfilled.

Didn't God go to War?

Joshua – Means Military leader in Hebrew but in Greek it means Jesus
- 2 Spies go into Jericho
- Joshua worships an angel in his presents, which is Jesus Christ.
- Battle of Jericho – Didn’t Jesus fight the battle?
“Every law of the torah was violated in Jericho“ The Ark of the Covenant was not supposed to go to war.

The Book of Joshua is a model for Revelations (The books refer to each other)

In Ezekiel Chapter 4 talks about the 440 years of Judgment
The only place in the bible where day is for a year
70 years are accounted for in the Babylon captivity
360 years no one knows and is unexplainable

God said if you don’t obey me the first time that I’m going to apply your punishments by seven.

360 years
x7
2520 years

2520 years is about the time that Israel has been in despair if you are counting from the first siege of Nebuchadnez'zar
This date is being set off from the captivity of the people.

Amos (lesser Profit) predictions,

Amos – Consists of 8 burdens 3 sermons and 5 visions
The basic theme the Northern Kingdom thinks that they are militarily secures, economically prosperous, worshipping idols, and abandons their heritage. (Judgment comes down as Amos Predicted)

When you read the book of Amos be sensitive to parallels to another country that thinks its militarily secure but is in more jeopardy than ever. We worship idols (Material Items) and have abandoned our heritage!

Psalms - says that when God rebuilds Zion he is ready to return.
(In 1998 Israel was the Number 1 growing City in the world)

Didn't the lord state that he would return anytime after the 7th millennium? Didn't the lord also state that we would destroy ourselves the next time?

So in order for the lord’s words to stand true since the beginning of time then we will fulfill his word, Right?

[RSDad]

Originally posted by chaplain
Thanks for your reply PPR. Please try to understand where Christian Pacifism comes from. It comes from the command of Christ to be peacemakers. It is not some blind pie in the sky idealistic worldview. It takes into account hard realities including the fact the war is a particularly destructive form of diplomacy. No matter how hard they try not to, combatants hit schools, hospitals, churches, old people and children, not to mention "friendly fire" incidents.

If we take the Bible seriously where it says "With God nothing shall be impossible" then there is a way other than fighting. We just have to be brave enough and smart enough to find it. Admiral Yamamoto, who directed the attack on Pearl Harbor was praised by his staff for his smart attack plan. He was quoted as replying "A smart man would find a way not to fight a war."

I pray for grace and peace for our country and for you and your family.

Chaplain:
Again, well said.

Have you read the book "Choosing against War: A Christian View: A Love Stronger than Our Fears"? As a pacifist, I enjoyed the book immensely.

It is difficult to be a pacifist layperson in these times. I am unsure why others feel such a need to have me change my views and to tell me that I don't have a right to live here because of them. Is it the power of popular thought? I can't help how I interpret God's message but I feel as though I would be doing myself, and those who have taught me, a disservice if I were to abandon my long-held belief in God's message to me and my belief in the power of the transcendent because of the pressure of my fellow humans. I am willing to accept the consequences of my views and I never asked for anything more.

I sure do hope that your son and all of God's sons and daughters remain well.

[chaplain]

It is not my intent to start an argument. Everyone has a valid right to their opinions and I respect that. Let's just hope this conflict ends soon and my son and the sons and daughters of all our military personnel come home safely.

Shalom

[RSDad]

Originally posted by chaplain
It is not my intent to start an argument. Everyone has a valid right to their opinions and I respect that. Let's just hope this conflict ends soon and my son and the sons and daughters of all our military personnel come home safely.

Shalom

Right on.

[Jackie Chiles]

What the Chaplin said too.

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by thuxley


What does "God appointed" mean? Is that just another way to say "born again" or does it mean that God appointed him to be president, or something else?

I believe that "God appointed" means chosen by God. Like, Tim was chosen to be WERA's chaplain for example.

[Due North]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree


I believe that "God appointed" means chosen by God. Like, Tim was chosen to be WERA's chaplain for example.

So God choose President Bush?? :confused:

[Repo Man]

Originally posted by Due North


So God choose President Bush?? :confused:

Without question!!! :D

[Laurie Acree]

Thankfully. Where would we be if Al was trying to run things?:eek:

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by Due North


So God choose President Bush??
you mean God's surname is Chad?

[Due North]

So why bother voting? Why bother with 4 year terms? Won't God just let us know?

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree


I believe that "God appointed" means chosen by God. Like, Tim was chosen to be WERA's chaplain for example.

Which other presidents were chosen by God?
William Henry Harrison and Chester Arthur surely.

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree
Thankfully. Where would we be if Al was trying to run things?:eek:

Supposing where we would be if Al Gore was running things is attempting to measure a non-event. Without the ability to travel through time and experience non-events, no claims can be made about this pseudo-reality.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
-Ludwig Wittgenstein

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by Due North
So why bother voting? Why bother with 4 year terms? Won't God just let us know?

God gives us choices. The world would be a boring place if He didn't give us choices. But, I have found in my faith, if I pray about the choice, God leads me to make the right decision and it is always the better plan.

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by RSDad


Supposing where we would be if Al Gore was running things is attempting to measure a non-event. Without the ability to travel through time and experience non-events, no claims can be made about this pseudo-reality.

"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
-Ludwig Wittgenstein

:) Lighten up. It was just a poke in the rib comment. ;)

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree


God gives us choices. The world would be a boring place if He didn't give us choices. But, I have found in my faith, if I pray about the choice, God leads me to make the right decision and it is always the better plan.

so is this a round about way of saying that because God gives us choices , and we chose George Bush therefore, God chose George Bush?

[Joss]

"...if Al Gore was running things is attempting to measure a non-event. Without the ability to travel through time and experience non-events..." :confused:

Simple test: You are walking to your car late at night and are approached by several thugs. You get to pick the person that is along with you:

a. Bush :)
b. Gore :(

Whom do you pick?


The correct answer is on the back.

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree


:) Lighten up. It was just a poke in the rib comment. ;)

I wasn't being critical, I'm just a huge Wittgenstein fan. I'm fascinated with language, non-events, etc. No offense intended. ;)

[Due North]

Laurie, I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I'm not sure I understand. Did the people elect the President or did God?

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Joss
"...if Al Gore was running things is attempting to measure a non-event. Without the ability to travel through time and experience non-events..." :confused:

Simple test: You are walking to your car late at night and are approached by several thugs. You get to pick the person that is along with you:

a. Bush :)
b. Gore :(

Whom do you pick?


The correct answer is on the back.

I don't understand the question.

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Due North
Laurie, I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I'm not sure I understand. Did the people elect the President or did God?

That's an easy one Due. Everybody knows that the people didn't elect Bush. It HAD to be God.

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by thuxley
therefore, God chose George Bush?
God told ME to vote for Due North in '04 :D

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by Due North
Laurie, I'm not trying to give you a hard time but I'm not sure I understand. Did the people elect the President or did God?

Have you ever studied or read anything on God's will or predestination?It is interesting stuff but very complicated. I have read some on this subject lately because of some circumstances that have come into our lives. This is my conclusion. God gives us choices, like voting or taking the right job. God is in control of EVERYTHING. He gives us choices because He wants us to depend on him. So as Christians we pray about our choices. If I do not include God in my decision making then he hands me the consequences. So, to answer your question....I believe by President Bush being a Christian there were many prayers involved when he was elected. Prayers by Bush, his family and his Christian family (other believers) and I believe God "allowed" (that choice thing again) Bush to be President because God needs one of his to be in this position to lead this country against evil. And when I get confused on this subject I just remember that God controls everything because He created it.

Now this is just what I believe. If you don't agree with it then let it roll out like a tumbleweed.:D

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

My god just started everything and pretty much keeps his hands out of the fray... just waits till we muck it up so bad he has to send in a liberal democrat to fix everything :D

(put down those flamethrowers, just kidding on the last part)

[Jackie Chiles]

Laurie,

So did God get Clinton elected too, or did he lose that battle to Satan?;)

Rodger

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Roger you must carry a damn big stirring stick :D

[Jackie Chiles]

Shut up Eric, this is serious.

And who elected Dan Quale?

And Carter? (I bet Carter was definately God's choice, not that Ford was Satan's)

Andrew Johnson was definately Satan's choice.

Nixon? Definately satan.

Bush I? I'm not sure.





Rodger





































































Stir, stir, stir.:D

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Rodger Doyle
Shut up Eric, this is serious.

And who elected Dan Quale?

And Carter? (I bet Carter was definately God's choice, not that Ford was Satan's)

Andrew Johnson was definately Satan's choice.

Nixon? Definately satan.

Bush I? I'm not sure.


The 2000 election was much more complicated than we know. God the Father was a Bush man/god, God the Son was not thrilled about any candidates but leaned to Gore because of environmental issues, God the Holy Spirit was rooting for Nader (because he was tired of the dominant 2 party system). We all know that God the Father won out (reportedly because he offered Katherine Harris eternal youth).

[Jackie Chiles]

Shall I cast the first stone?


BLASPHEMER!!!! Thuxley will ROT IN HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!



Rodger

















Stir and stir again!!!!!!:D

[PPR]

The Bible states that if you are of worldly ways then you cannot be of God. So with that thought, my guess (not judging) guess would say that about 99% of the people and presidents that we currently live here today just don't add up.

If you are truly living for God in the End of Days (which I believe we are (Personal Opinion)), the Bible states, be prepared to SUFFER.
If you are rolling a new Escalade, 22's and racing all over the country spending lots of money, then I don't get the feeling that you’re suffering? So in term to what the Bible states that you must not be suffering too badly. Oh unless suffering is not having the new Mercedes 03 E-Class and must drive the 01 Toyota Camry.

And if you got the E-Class Mercedes - Then the work around for the book is that you are considered blessed!

I am very knowledgeable of the Word but sickened by the Politics and Bureaucracy within the Church today. (':Puke:')

There is more Politics being played within various, I mean various churches than in my Privately owned Corporate Company of 1200 people.

[Tim McKinley]

Laurie, you seem pretty levelheaded so I'm going to ask you a really personal question. How do you wrap your head around total blind faith? Honestly, I've tried and would like too, I just can't get there. The closest I can get is the absolute love for my chilren. I know with absolute conviction I would step in front of a bus for either of my two girls without heitation, it is a given with no hint of doubt, but it is the only absolute I can readily accept.

[thuxley]

Originally posted by PPR


I am very knowledgeable of the Word but sickened by the Politics and Bureaucracy within the Church today. (':Puke:')


You may be "knowledgeable of the Word" but today doesn't look like your day to be able to string a whole bunch of words together that make much sense. (My opinion, that is).

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by Rodger Doyle
Laurie,

So did God get Clinton elected too, or did he lose that battle to Satan?;)

Rodger


Good one.:D

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree


God is in control of EVERYTHING.

BS!!!!!

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by Tim McKinley
Laurie, you seem pretty levelheaded so I'm going to ask you a really personal question. How do you wrap your head around total blind faith? Honestly, I've tried and would like too, I just can't get there. The closest I can get is the absolute love for my chilren. I know with absolute conviction I would step in front of a bus for either of my two girls without heitation, it is a given with no hint of doubt, but it is the only absolute I can readily accept.


Just what someone else mentioned. Suffering. I had to suffer, I mean down on my knees suffering before I could get to that level of blind faith. As soon as I turned everything, my plans, my husbands future even our 3 year olds future over to the Lord we were immediately blessed. It is the hardest thing to do because we want to be in control so badly. But, the situation was absolutely out of our hands. Only God could control what was going on in our lives and I just prayed for God to protect us from harm and lead us to where he needed us. I will pm you the result because it was overwhelmingly awesome.

As far as getting there...you are at a good start with your love for your children. Because that is what we are to God, his children. So this post does not turn into a sermon I will email you some thoughts.

:)

[Tim McKinley]

cool, thanks:)

[RoadRacerX]

Originally posted by RSDad


I don't understand the question.

C'mon RS. You seem like an intelligent sort. Take a good look at Al Gore and tell me he doesn't make a fist with his fingers over his thumb! :D

[Jackie Chiles]

Quote of the day goes to RSDad: "That's an easy one Due. Everybody knows that the people didn't elect Bush. It HAD to be God."

:D :D :D :D

Rodger

[dave333]

Originally posted by thuxley


What does "God appointed" mean? Is that just another way to say "born again" or does it mean that God appointed him to be president, or something else?

Scripture points out that our governments and nations, as well as the rulers and nations are all appointed by God.

Romans 13:1 (NAS)
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

I can see this getting off on a billion tangents, but suffice it to say the Bible tells us we are to be "good" citizens unless asked to deny Christ.

[RSDad]

Originally posted by USCRacerX


C'mon RS. You seem like an intelligent sort. Take a good look at Al Gore and tell me he doesn't make a fist with his fingers over his thumb! :D

I've never considered how Al Gore makes a fist. I don't care one way or another, nor do I care how Dubya' makes a fist. I didn't vote for either one, I can't imagine who would be a better fighter, and I don't see how that is relevant. Honest.

[Laurie Acree]

You didn't vote?

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree
You didn't vote?

I voted.

[weggie man]

and you people wonder why we have wars in this world? just look at the conflict on this board over this subject ........... geez people lighten up!

[wera176]

Originally posted by dave333


Scripture points out that our governments and nations, as well as the rulers and nations are all appointed by God.

Romans 13:1 (NAS)
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

I can see this getting off on a billion tangents, but suffice it to say the Bible tells us we are to be "good" citizens unless asked to deny Christ.

So God appointed Saddam and Stalin and Hilter, etc...??!!!!???

I know this isn't a popular opinion (and that is all it is), and I'm assuming some things here, but I really doubt God dabbles too much in the way we run (and ruin) the planet and our lives. How could he and be as wise as we are taught as children? He just lets us (humans) murder and rape and fly planes into buildings and wage war and ruin the planet in general while helping some rich kid become President or some athlete win some championship? I don't buy it... It seems that he is pretty much leaving us to do whatever and suffer or profit based on whatever and (if this part is even true) will judge us at the end.

[dave333]

Originally posted by wera176


So God appointed Saddam and Stalin and Hilter, etc...??!!!!???

I know this isn't a popular opinion (and that is all it is), and I'm assuming some things here, but I really doubt God dabbles too much in the way we run (and ruin) the planet and our lives. How could he and be as wise as we are taught as children? He just lets us (humans) murder and rape and fly planes into buildings and wage war and ruin the planet in general while helping some rich kid become President or some athlete win some championship? I don't buy it... It seems that he is pretty much leaving us to do whatever and suffer or profit based on whatever and (if this part is even true) will judge us at the end.


You don't have to buy it. You only have to quit relying on your own strength and wisdom and ask God what is real and what is false. He still speaks today. He will show you the way, the truth and the life.

[thuxley]

Originally posted by dave333



You don't have to buy it. You only have to quit relying on your own strength and wisdom and ask God what is real and what is false. He still speaks today. He will show you the way, the truth and the life.

At least you are correct that we don't have to buy it.

[Team Atomic]

Originally posted by Joss
"...if Al Gore was running things is attempting to measure a non-event. Without the ability to travel through time and experience non-events..." :confused:

Simple test: You are walking to your car late at night and are approached by several thugs. You get to pick the person that is along with you:

a. Bush :)
b. Gore :(

Whom do you pick?


The correct answer is on the back.

gore.....bush is a whimp :D

last time i checked the supreme court voted in dub-ya....maybe we can ask Turkey for a recount, what we failed to do in Florida

and don't get me started why this campaign is WRONG!!!

why is Tony Blair or our President not listening to their nations and world opinion...

once again just another politician with an agenda!!!

...what I pray for is just one term....

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Team_Atomic



last time i checked the supreme court voted in dub-ya....maybe we can ask Turkey for a recount, what we failed to do in Florida



Can't you get over the fact that the democratic voters in Florida were too stupid to read a ballot?

Bush is the president, live with it.

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[Due North]

Originally posted by dave333


Scripture points out that our governments and nations, as well as the rulers and nations are all appointed by God.

Romans 13:1 (NAS)
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

I can see this getting off on a billion tangents, but suffice it to say the Bible tells us we are to be "good" citizens unless asked to deny Christ.

The government is appointed by God, yet there is no authority but God. Therefore the government has no authroity.

[kangasj]

Damn, I say start the war and get it over with. Did any of you that don't belive in the war hear what Hussein's son Uday recently said? Something to the effect that American wives, girl friends and families will not be safe no matter where they are in the world. This coming from the serial rapist that tapes "government sponsored" rapes and sends the tapes to the families as a form of coersion. Their government will happily target noncombatants. That whole regime needs to be gone....the sooner the better, by what ever means necessary.

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by dtalbott
Bush is the president, live with it.

politicians are like hemorrhoids: irritating but life goes on and you learn to live with the pain in the ass

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Eric


politicians are like hemorrhoids: irritating but life goes on and you learn to live with the pain in the ass

AMEN!!!

Sort of like women.

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[PPR]

Originally posted by thuxley


You may be "knowledgeable of the Word" but today doesn't look like your day to be able to string a whole bunch of words together that make much sense. (My opinion, that is).

Well thank you Thuggsie! (Gangsta)

I been feeling a little sick or under the weather over the last couple of days, but now I know what I need to do. I have been suffering and now know what is going to bless me. Your message was most inspirational to pointing my direction. I have been ordained as one of Gods Ministers to preach the Gospel by GOD.

If we are TO really SERVE GOD AS DECIPLES then we must get rid of everything that binds us. All material items or anything that gives us a level of boast, must GO! Give everything you have away and follow GOD! God will provide you with everything that you need! The lack of ones faith now shines him in the eye!

A young King once wanted to follow Jesus, Jesus stated if you truly want to follow me, sell all you have and give to the poor. The lack of faith of the young King could not bring himself to doing such a task.

Thanks goodness for GODS Mercy or none of us would make it!

[Tracee Polcin]

What a bunch of horse shit!!! God controls everything, that's hilarious. Keep them coming, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.:rolleyes:

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin
What a bunch of horse shit!!! God controls everything, that's hilarious. Keep them coming, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.:rolleyes:

Another reason I stay out of debates or talks of religion.:rolleyes:

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer


Another reason I stay out of debates or talks of religion.:rolleyes:

What do you mean by that?:confused:

[Mongo]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


What do you mean by that?:confused:

Possibly that it's sad you don't have respect for someone elses opinion and feel the need to ridicule them? And most people that get involved in religious debates are the same?

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Mongo


Possibly that it's sad you don't have respect for someone elses opinion and feel the need to ridicule them? And most people that get involved in religious debates are the same?
In that same sense Sean, why do people feel the need to shove religion down peoples throat?

[wera176]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

In that same sense Sean, why do people feel the need to shove religion down peoples throat?

Actually, they claim the Bible tells them to.

Usually I enjoy a good debate on Religion. It has been debated for thousands of years by people way smarter than I'll ever even pretend to me, and it is interesting to hear different folks perspectives on things. What I do get tired of it how most debates end with simply "that's just the way it is, you have to just believe it." I guess that's the engineer in me because I view that as a non-answer.

[wera176]

Originally posted by PPR


Well thank you Thuggsie! (Gangsta)

I been feeling a little sick or under the weather over the last couple of days, but now I know what I need to do. I have been suffering and now know what is going to bless me. Your message was most inspirational to pointing my direction. I have been ordained as one of Gods Ministers to preach the Gospel by GOD.

If we are TO really SERVE GOD AS DECIPLES then we must get rid of everything that binds us. All material items or anything that gives us a level of boast, must GO! Give everything you have away and follow GOD! God will provide you with everything that you need! The lack of ones faith now shines him in the eye!

A young King once wanted to follow Jesus, Jesus stated if you truly want to follow me, sell all you have and give to the poor. The lack of faith of the young King could not bring himself to doing such a task.

Thanks goodness for GODS Mercy or none of us would make it!

Is this really PPR? You're scaring me a little... (Can I have your bike?) ;)

[Jackie Chiles]

Tracee,

No one is pushing religion here in an obnoxious way. Mongo's point was only that you should be more respectful in voicing your beliefs about someone else's opinion.

I teased Laurie a bit, but I lke to think that she got the joke. Your response to PPR was uncharecteristically rude. You're not usually like that, if I recall correctly.

Rodger

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Rodger Doyle
Tracee,

No one is pushing religion here in an obnoxious way. Mongo's point was only that you should be more respectful in voicing your beliefs about someone else's opinion.

I teased Laurie a bit, but I lke to think that she got the joke. Your response to PPR was uncharecteristically rude. You're not usually like that, if I recall correctly.

Rodger
To you, maybe not, to me, it is being pushy.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


What do you mean by that?:confused:

Nothing, just my religious views or lack thereof.

[PPR]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

In that same sense Sean, why do people feel the need to shove religion down peoples throat?

Tracee the Bible tells you to educate and speak the Gospel Freely, but not to cram it down peoples throat. This is where Christians ruin the word of God and what it stands for. It's another thing for one to act Holy, Holy, Holy and condem another because the're not perceived to be as pure as them.

Who gave them the right to proclaim purity unless you are living 100% to the word. ;)

Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:14 - Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

This scripture is not taken to heart fully or they would act fully.

1 Corinthians 9:18 - What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

1 Thessalonians 2:4 - But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.


I believe in God and the Bible with all my heart, but profess against people that proclaim they live 100% by the word. I know that I fall short of his Glory and only hope that God has mercy upon my soul.


Philippians 2:12 - Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by PPR


Tracee the Bible tells you to educate and speak the Gospel Freely, but not to cram it down peoples throat. This is where Christians ruin the word of God and what it stands for. It's another thing for one to act Holy, Holy, Holy and condem another because the're not perceived to be as pure as them.



My post wasn't direct toward anyone, I was just posting in general.

;)

[Mongo]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

In that same sense Sean, why do people feel the need to shove religion down peoples throat?

You asked what Tony meant, I answered what I thought he meant. I never said anything in support of anyone's views or against anyone's views. It's not my call to tell people what to believe.

I do however have a couple of questions for you - Why the insulting and demaning manner? Why not post what you feel is right as a counterpoint to what they posted? After all, there's no need to act like Brad is there?

I was talking to someone about the insutling manner that seems to pervade the BBS of late and while I feel people should be free to make asses of themselves at any time I am curious as to why they feel the need. to do so rather than discuss matters in a more friendly manner.

[PPR]

Trivia Time?

For all of you Bible Peeps out there?

What bible study was given 12 times by 7 different people in one book of the bible?

(Jeopardy Theme song).... we will come back with the answer right after this short commercial break.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by Mongo


Possibly that it's sad you don't have respect for someone elses opinion and feel the need to ridicule them? And most people that get involved in religious debates are the same?

Whenever people start talking about religion it's just like politics to me. I stay away from it. Too controversial.

People don't belive in magic, ghosts, the supernatural, etc...but they'll swear up and down people were risen from the dead, parting the sea, and walking on water. Sorry, I'm a non believer. And like I told Tracee, if there is a heaven or hell I'll find out when I die.

[Mongo]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

To you, maybe not, to me, it is being pushy.

But is it being insulting and demeaning? Because your repsonse sure was.

I agree that to an extent it is pushy to say this is what I believe and you should believe it too. However other than possibly PPR (I didn't read his whole post, too far out there for me to be interested in) I didn't see that here at all.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Enough of the opinions...time for boobies....

http://urbanjunkie.macker.co.uk/smiles/googoo.gif

[PPR]

EX CCS Racer

I don't ever remember hearing them give a Bible Study.

But Nice Try.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by PPR
EX CCS Racer

I don't ever remember hearing them give a Bible Study.

But Nice Try.

:confused:

[kangasj]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
Enough of the opinions...time for boobies....

http://urbanjunkie.macker.co.uk/smiles/googoo.gif Best thing I've seen on this BBS today!!!!

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
Enough of the opinions...time for boobies....


Proverbs 5:19 KJV
Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Mongo


I do however have a couple of questions for you - Why the insulting and demaning manner? Why not post what you feel is right as a counterpoint to what they posted? After all, there's no need to act like Brad is there?


I don't feel what I posted was insulting. Maybe I should have said "do you believe in magic or the supernatural?"

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

Maybe I should have said "do you believe in magic or the supernatural?"

I do. And Santa Clause, too!!!

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[Jackie Chiles]

Thuxley Rules!!!:D :D

[kangasj]

Originally posted by thuxley


Proverbs 5:19 KJV
Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. OK, so I'm not real religious. Are you saying it's OK with the big guy if I play with em......the breasts that is....;)

[Ex CCS Racer]

THREAD JACK THREAD JACK

BOOBIES

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by kangasj
OK, so I'm not real religious. Are you saying it's OK with the big guy if I play with em......the breasts that is....;)

Should be OK, but the Catholics say you can't play with yourself (Thank You, Lord, I'm Baptist).

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[Ex CCS Racer]

And dtalbott...thes IS NO Santa Claus!!:p

[kangasj]

Originally posted by dtalbott


Should be OK, but the Catholics say you can't play with yourself (Thank You, Lord, I'm Baptist).

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott kewl. I think I'll be OK for a while (the playing with self thing). It's going to take quite a while before I get tired of playing with that set :D.

[Dave K]

Can I interest any of you in a F@#king copy of the Watchtower?

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
And dtalbott...thes IS NO Santa Claus!!:p

There is, too! He doesn't come see you because you are always on the BAD list.

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Dave K
Can I interest any of you in a F@#king copy of the Watchtower?

What is that?

[kangasj]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


What is that? Jehovah's rag

[PPR]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


What is that?

Jehovah's Witnesses

Http://www.watchtower.org

[kangasj]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

So what are those dudes about? Tell ya what, if you can send me your address, I'll make sure some stop by your house to give you an "explanation" about what they're about.....free of charge ;)

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by kangasj
Tell ya what, if you can send me your address, I'll make sure some stop by your house to give you an "explanation" about what they're about.....free of charge ;)

No thanks, the subdivision I live in is a "No Solicitation" neighborhood.

[Mongo]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin
I don't feel what I posted was insulting. Maybe I should have said "do you believe in magic or the supernatural?"

You seem to have forgotten so I'll try and help out - "What a bunch of horse shit!!! God controls everything, that's hilarious. Keep them coming, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time."

Doesn't sound to me like a nice way of asking how they can believe in somehting you don't.

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Mongo


You seem to have forgotten so I'll try and help out - "What a bunch of horse shit!!! God controls everything, that's hilarious. Keep them coming, I haven't laughed so hard in a long time."

Doesn't sound to me like a nice way of asking how they can believe in somehting you don't.

Ok, maybe the horse shit part is a bit over the top. But if God controls everything like they say, next time whoever believes that is in their car, let go of the steering wheel in a turn and see what happens.;)

[Due North]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


Ok, maybe the horse shit part is a bit over the top. But if God controls everything like they say, next time whoever believes that is in their car, let go of the steering wheel in a turn and see what happens.;)

A Guy in Italy did just that. Caused a major accident.

[PPR]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


Ok, maybe the horse shit part is a bit over the top. But if God controls everything like they say, next time whoever believes that is in their car, let go of the steering wheel in a turn and see what happens.;)

I understand what you are trying to say but God will not protect the Foolish. This incident would be considered, the Devil has tricked you into killing yourself even though you know the end result.

Psalms 39:8 - Deliver me from all my transgressions: make me not the reproach of the foolish

Proverbs 9:6 - Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

1 Corinthians 1:27 - But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

Titus 3:3 - For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


Ok, maybe the horse shit part is a bit over the top. But if God controls everything like they say, next time whoever believes that is in their car, let go of the steering wheel in a turn and see what happens.;)

He'll control it. If it's your day to die, He'll let the car hit a big stationary object. If it's not your day to die, you'll survive. God knows everything; He even knew you were going to post a stupid question, and He didn't kill your connection:D .

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by PPR


I understand what you are trying to say but God will not protect the Foolish. This incident would be considered, the Devil has tricked you into killing yourself even though you know the end result.



What about all the innocent victims of the WTC? And how did the devil trick all those people?

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by dtalbott


He'll control it. If it's your day to die, He'll let the car hit a big stationary object. If it's not your day to die, you'll survive. God knows everything; He even knew you were going to post a stupid question, and He didn't kill your connection:D .

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

Why did he let my Father die of cancer and leave 3 kids and a spouse to fend for themselves?

[PPR]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


What about all the innocent victims of the WTC? And how did the devil trick all those people?


They thought they had a secure job?

[Dave K]

God doesn't care if you take your hands off the wheel of your car and you slam it into a gasoline truck. He doesn't care if you plug yourself in the head with a nail gun. He can't sweat every little detail on every insignificant human in every inconsequential place. You need to sweat your own details and let him handle the important things.

...And Brad, he told me to tell you to stop praying for a Nicky Hayden lunch box, he isn't F@#king Santa Claus. :D

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


No thanks, the subdivision I live in is a "No Solicitation" neighborhood.

I've never seen a gated trailer park:confused: :D

[Due North]

Originally posted by dtalbott


He'll control it. If it's your day to die, He'll let the car hit a big stationary object. If it's not your day to die, you'll survive. God knows everything; He even knew you were going to post a stupid question, and He didn't kill your connection:D .

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

If God knows what you are going to do, and God is perfect; then everything you do is pre-destined. If everything is pre-destined, then I have no control over anything. If I have no control over anything, then I can neither earn a place in Heaven, nor be condemned to Hell. Therefore life has no purpose.

[Mongo]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


Why did he let my Father die of cancer and leave 3 kids and a spouse to fend for themselves?

Same reason he let Evelyne's dad die when she was 13. Same reason babies die every day. Same reason child abuse happens. Same reason all bad things happen.

That's where faith comes into play. There is no logical explanation - even if you believe in God you can't know the reasoning behind his actions. Not any more than you can know the reasoning behind another humans actions - especially if they are somehting you'd never consider doing.

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Mongo


Same reason he let Evelyne's dad die when she was 13. Same reason babies die every day. Same reason child abuse happens. Same reason all bad things happen.

That's where faith comes into play. There is no logical explanation - even if you believe in God you can't know the reasoning behind his actions. Not any more than you can know the reasoning behind another humans actions - especially if they are somehting you'd never consider doing.
That's were I have trouble believing that he would let people suffer for no good reason. Should we just believe because everyone esle does? Or should we ask why and be ridiculed?

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by PPR



They thought they had a secure job?
You're answering my question with a question? :confused:

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


Why did he let my Father die of cancer and leave 3 kids and a spouse to fend for themselves?

Tracee,

I'm sorry. This is the problem with religous debates. All I can tell you is hat I was taught, and what I believe: God has a purpose for everything He does, whether we understand it or not. Maybe it was to make you stronger. Maybe it was to push you in a different direction. I don't know; only God knows.

Again, I'm sorry about your father.

Darrin Talbott

[Mongo]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

That's were I have trouble believing that he would let people suffer for no good reason. Should we just believe because everyone esle does? Or should we ask why and be ridiculed?

Ask away, I actually agree with you on this for the most part. I don't understand it and I don't have blind faith in anything. Just can't convince myself to do it.

[Mongo]

By the way, Tracee, I appreciate the trend towards discussing.

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Due North


If God knows what you are going to do, and God is perfect; then everything you do is pre-destined. If everything is pre-destined, then I have no control over anything. If I have no control over anything, then I can neither earn a place in Heaven, nor be condemned to Hell. Therefore life has no purpose.

Due, I haven't talked about this in a long time, but this is what I believe: life is a big role-playing game, and God is the dungeon master. He created each of us and gave us the potential to do good or bad, and it is up to each of us to reach our potential.

Think of life as a long straight line, with certain points marked on the line. Each point is a "destiny" point, where we can use our free will to choose a direction. We may choose to take a direction that is not the one God planned for us, thus creating a new line, but at the next "destiny" point, we may choose to go back to our original line.

I hope that life is like Jonathon Livingston Seagull, where what we learn in this life determines what level we go to in the next life.

Tracee, you asked about the victims in the WTC. I would rather ask about the people who worked there but were not at work for one reason or another. I don't have the answers; only God does.

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by dtalbott


Tracee,

I'm sorry. This is the problem with religous debates. All I can tell you is hat I was taught, and what I believe: God has a purpose for everything He does, whether we understand it or not. Maybe it was to make you stronger. Maybe it was to push you in a different direction. I don't know; only God knows.

Again, I'm sorry about your father.

Darrin Talbott

Darrin don't be sorry for my Father, I hope he lived his life to it's fullest, I know I do.

See I have two other brothers, both way different than me. One's a jailbird and the other white trash. So God has a purpose for them to be what they are today? Boy, he sure has a funny way of doing business.;)

[Ex CCS Racer]

Question....Is God the almighty being that created the earth, heaven, and the stars?

A simple yes/no answer will do.

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
Question....Is God the almighty being that created the earth, heaven, and the stars?

A simple yes/no answer will do.

Maybe.

[Ex CCS Racer]

It's yes or no..no maybe. If you believe this then tell me....yes

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by dtalbott

Tracee, you asked about the victims in the WTC. I would rather ask about the people who worked there but were not at work for one reason or another. I don't have the answers; only God does.

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

With all respect that's what I have a problem with, only God knows why. I just find that answer too vague in meaning. It would be like me telling my daughter that she has to eat all of her spinach. When she asks why, I tell her because I say so. Now if I would tell how healthy and what spinach does for her I would suspect she would believe more of what I say instead of just because I said so.

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
It's yes or no..no maybe. If you believe this then tell me....yes

How about "I'm not sure"? ;)

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
Question....Is God the almighty being that created the earth, heaven, and the stars?

A simple yes/no answer will do.

Anxiously awaiting some responses.....

[PPR]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

You're answering my question with a question? :confused:

Well I sound more like a Edward Demming everyday. I wish I had the answer for that one. At this point in time Tracee I don't. I will work on it, but I think that God only has the answer for this one. All I know is that God said he has never lost a child.

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer


Anxiously awaiting some responses.....

All kidding aside, you are asking people to give a yes/no answer to a question that cannot be answered with a yes or no alone. There are lots of philosophical and theological questions that fit into this category.

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer


Anxiously awaiting some responses.....

The Book says He did, so yes.

See Ya,

Darrin Talbott

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by PPR


Well I sound more like a Edward Demming everyday. I wish I had the answer for that one. At this point in time Tracee I don't. I will work on it, but I think that God only has the answer for this one. All I know is that God said he has never lost a child.

Not trying to discount what you believe in but why is that the same answer for every question that can't be specificly answered? It really seems like a automatic response when there isn't an answer.

I live life like I would want to be treated. Maybe sometimes I get off base but I do what is right and try to understand others feelings.

Peace and out, I'm done with this thread.

[Robert]

I guess this is more theoretical than theological but a friend emailed me..

"Just got a phone call from a friend that lives next to the RAF Lakenheath airbase and he said that a squadron of B2's just took to the air. So in about another 6 hrs the fireworks should begin over Baghdad."

I'm not sure that is accurate. Not that I really know much at all about military stuff.

They ain't going to Turkey.. I suppose they could just be repositioning them closer in Saudi Arabia or maybe Bulgaria?

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Dave K

...And Brad, he told me to tell you to stop praying for a Nicky Hayden lunch box, he isn't F@#king Santa Claus. :D

:D

[PPR]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer


Anxiously awaiting some responses.....

Sorry for the longer answer

The Bible states that God was the Creator of all things

If you believe in the Bible, then you would believe by faith that God was the creator. If you do not believe then you can believe in whatever you would like too.

To answer you question, I believe


Habakkuk – Chapter 2:4 “The just shall live by faith”
This verse is quoted 3 times in the New Testament

Romans 1:17 Galatians 3:11 Hebrews 10:38

Romans emphasizes on the “Just” shall live
It describes who is the just?

Galatians talks about how they should “live”

Hebrews talks about the “faith”

This is a trilogy amplifying Habakkuk; it also implies that Paul wrote Hebrews it’s the third of his trilogy on this subject.

[PPR]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


Not trying to discount what you believe in but why is that the same answer for every question that can't be specificly answered? It really seems like a automatic response when there isn't an answer.

I live life like I would want to be treated. Maybe sometimes I get off base but I do what is right and try to understand others feelings.

Peace and out, I'm done with this thread.


I also do the same tracee in life, live the best that I can and help others in life and be a well rounded individual. If I had all of the answers I would be GOD. There is still much to learn in life and I still seek answers myself but I cannot give up.

I must head out for the day... catch you tomorrow

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Everybody is entitled to their own personal God. Anytime I view another's faith through MY eyes I think they're full of it. But when I view THEIR beliefs through THEIR eyes I often gain some insight that leads to a better understanding.

My God started everything, then left the rest up to us. I really think at times he's out there slapping his forehead saying "DOH!" at some of the crap we come up with. I really liked George Burn's portrayal in "Oh God."

One thing I hate is people arguing that there way is the ONLY way. The mainstream Muslims believe that there is only one God, and that all the faiths give him a different name but worship the some higher power. Look at the Bible, the Koran, the Torah and whatever and they all have the same underlying spiritual principles, just different words, to each his own.

Okay, I'll put away my spiritual soapbox and go back to bashing conservatives :D

[dtalbott]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


With all respect that's what I have a problem with, only God knows why. I just find that answer too vague in meaning. It would be like me telling my daughter that she has to eat all of her spinach. When she asks why, I tell her because I say so. Now if I would tell how healthy and what spinach does for her I would suspect she would believe more of what I say instead of just because I said so.

But she still wouldn't eat her spinach, and if she did, she wouldn't like it.

You have to tell her that is what Popeye eats (assuming she watches Popeye).


See Ya,

Darrin Talbot

[Yzasserina]

What does faith have to do with the Bible? I've never read the Bible, yet I have faith.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by PPR


Sorry for the longer answer

The Bible states that God was the Creator of all things

If you believe in the Bible, then you would believe by faith that God was the creator. If you do not believe then you can believe in whatever you would like too.

To answer you question, I believe


Habakkuk – Chapter 2:4 “The just shall live by faith”
This verse is quoted 3 times in the New Testament

Romans 1:17 Galatians 3:11 Hebrews 10:38

Romans emphasizes on the “Just” shall live
It describes who is the just?

Galatians talks about how they should “live”

Hebrews talks about the “faith”

This is a trilogy amplifying Habakkuk; it also implies that Paul wrote Hebrews it’s the third of his trilogy on this subject.



Who created God then?

[Due North]

In the beginning, God created the earth and rested. Then God created Man and rested.

Then God created Woman. Since then, neither God nor Man has rested.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Okay...then who created God?

[Due North]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
Okay...then who created God?

We did. And he created us.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by Due North


We did. And he created us.

Sorry, not buyin' it.... my opinion is mankind needed something to look forwad to and give us hope for what seemed to be a bleak future at the time. So in turn we created a "diety" or "supreme being" to look over us, to speak to, to guide us, to help us through our hard times.

The Bible, from what I've read(a lot of it), I think is a great handbook for living. But the tales that go on in it are hardly true in my opinion.

I'll exit the thread at this point. This is why I don't like talking about this kinda stuff.

[Dave K]

Tony, to answer your earlier question, I don't know.

[dave333]

Originally posted by thuxley


At least you are correct that we don't have to buy it.

"You don't have to buy it. You only have to quit relying on your own strength and wisdom and ask God what is real and what is false. He still speaks today. He will show you the way, the truth and the life. "

At least I am correct on just the buying part? Please let me expand on what I was referring to. Maybe that would make it clear where I was going. You do not have to work for, or figure out some way, or say 32 hail mary's to be able to enjoy a fulfilling, complete, enjoyable relationship with God. The door to that life immediately and completely opens for each and every person that believes that Jesus, the Christ, died for us on the cross of Calvary and there took our shortcomings, our willful disobedience, our sin upon Himself. Jesus, fully God and fully man, took our debt and paid it in full. We can do nothing to get right with God, He did it and finished it on the cross once and for all.

We do, however, need to act accordingly once we begin to walk in the light and realize the great price that was paid for us to enter in. The work of our hands has nothing, nada, to do with getting right with the Creator of heaven and earth. Thanks for giving me a chance to clarify what I meant!

[WERA522]

Zero Hour is approaching and I got my beer and pizza out and CNN on. Can't wait. Should be a good fireworks show. I bet the people of Bagdad are going to be quite surprised by the free show....

[RSDad]

Originally posted by WERA522
Zero Hour is approaching and I got my beer and pizza out and CNN on. Can't wait. Should be a good fireworks show. I bet the people of Bagdad are going to be quite surprised by the free show....

It's not entertainment. It's not fireworks. It's not a free show. It is your fellow humans being killed whether you like them or not.:(

Thanks for reassuring me about my views as a pacifist.

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

To you, maybe not, to me, it is being pushy.

I'm too lazy to look for it but at the end of my comment to Due about my view I said this is my belief and if you don't agree then let it roll out like a tumbleweed. Not pushy at all Tracee. If you don't want to read about God being in control then move on.;)

[wera176]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer


Sorry, not buyin' it.... my opinion is mankind needed something to look forwad to and give us hope for what seemed to be a bleak future at the time. So in turn we created a "diety" or "supreme being" to look over us, to speak to, to guide us, to help us through our hard times.

The Bible, from what I've read(a lot of it), I think is a great handbook for living. But the tales that go on in it are hardly true in my opinion.

I'll exit the thread at this point. This is why I don't like talking about this kinda stuff.

I have pondered this very view numerous times, and it's still the most logic one I've heard. (What follows is opinions, no bashing required). I think that ALL religions were created as ways to control people (particularly in ancient times). Look at the Ten Commandments, reads just like a law book. Thou shalt not kill, steal, etc. Good stuff, no doubt, but really just laws. Don't eat meat from hoven animals. Why? They hadn't figured out how to cook 'em so people were getting sick. Why did Jesus (or wherever it happened in the New Testament) determine it was ok to eat pork? Because they figured out that if you cook it, you'll be ok. Ok, don't obey the laws and what happens? Burn in a lake of fire forever... Pretty scary stuff! Probably scared ancient man pretty good! Still scares a lot of people today...

[wera176]

Originally posted by RSDad


It's not entertainment. It's not fireworks. It's not a free show. It is your fellow humans being killed whether you like them or not.:(

Thanks for reassuring me about my views as a pacifist.

Yep, much better to let their own leader kill them by the ten thousands... :( Or wait until he unleashes one of those weapons that he doesn't have or sells them to some Bin Lauden wanna-be.

I'm not really for the war, but I think the alternative is worse...

[WERA522]

I am against this war. I support our troops. The sooner we go in the sooner our troops can come home. The only way that will happen will be wiping out their forces quickly and that takes massive amounts of firepower, ie fireworks.

[dave333]

Originally posted by wera176
I think that ALL religions were created as ways to control people...

...Ok, don't obey the laws and what happens? Burn in a lake of fire forever... Pretty scary stuff! Probably scared ancient man pretty good! Still scares a lot of people today...

What happens when you use a screwdriver for a hammer? How about when you put when you forget to put water in the radiator and run the bike for a few minutes? How about if you decide to eat McDonalds every meal your whole life instead of broccoli and cauliflower? What happens when you don't read the manual and try and slap that sucker together anyway?

God shows us the way to live life to it's fullest, to get max horsepower, so to speak. Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control overflow from a life lived for Him, through Him. I don't live there every minute of every day. I am looking forward to spending more and more time there as He helps me grow up...

[RoadRacerX]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer

Sorry, not buyin' it.... my opinion is mankind needed something to look forwad to and give us hope for what seemed to be a bleak future at the time. So in turn we created a "diety" or "supreme being" to look over us, to speak to, to guide us, to help us through our hard times.

The Bible, from what I've read(a lot of it), I think is a great handbook for living. But the tales that go on in it are hardly true in my opinion.

I'll exit the thread at this point. This is why I don't like talking about this kinda stuff.

I was going to avoid this thread, but I have to chime in and help out my brother Dave333.

Tony, just what is a "diety"? Isn't that something Oprah does from time to time? :D Sorry, but I guess you meant Deity. :p

The Bible IS a great handbook for living, but the "tales" are hardly made up in my opinion. Christians, Muslims, and Jews alike acknowlege and make reference to Jesus. Yet it is only Christians who think (know) he is the Messiah. The stories of his miracles are written by his disciples at different times, yet reinforce each other. I can not discount these similar accounts as a conspiricy. It was years ago that skeptics said there was no Pontius Pilot, yet historians have unearthed proof that he indeed lived around the day of Jesus. Recently a burial box was found from that era inscribed "James, brother of Jesus". Many people including Harvard scientists with Phd's have tried for years to disprove God and Jesus. None have succeeded. All the while new pieces of history are unearthed that support Biblical accounts.

God gave us one trait that allows us to decide what we put our faith in: Free will. Everyone has faith in something. I prefer to put my faith in God, that he will never lie to us, and never leave us. I also put my faith in Jesus, who said he will be back.

I wish you all nothing but the best, and that you all find the truth for yourselves. God Bless you all.

[mad brad]

Originally posted by dave333


. We can do nothing to get right with God, He did it and finished it on the cross once and for all.



but wait, pope mongo said differently. ;)

[RoadRacerX]

Originally posted by mad brad


but wait, pope mongo said differently. ;)

Let it go, my friend. Let it go... ;)

[mad brad]

Originally posted by USCRacerX


Let it go, my friend. Let it go... ;)

funny how he dropped that one eh? ;)

he also dropped the bruce/nancy thing.

[wera176]

Originally posted by dave333


What happens when you use a screwdriver for a hammer? How about when you put when you forget to put water in the radiator and run the bike for a few minutes? How about if you decide to eat McDonalds every meal your whole life instead of broccoli and cauliflower? What happens when you don't read the manual and try and slap that sucker together anyway?

God shows us the way to live life to it's fullest, to get max horsepower, so to speak. Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control overflow from a life lived for Him, through Him. I don't live there every minute of every day. I am looking forward to spending more and more time there as He helps me grow up...

I'm not sure that I follow... :confused: Must have missed all that in Sunday school.... I didn't mean that the Bible (or religions in general) teaches common sense, what I kinda meant was that in ancient times (and not so ancient times) religions were "created" (for lack of a better word and no pun intended) to control the masses, to extert power over people. All religions that I am aware of are really based in fear, fear of what will happen if you don't believe in their teachings or following their rules. Yes, there is the promise of happininess or whatever, but there is always that "But if you don't..." clause. This is certainly fanciful, but image the following fictional and abridged converstation (this would have really taken 100s of years, probably):

Leader: Thou shalt not kill!
People: Why not?
Leader: Because God said not to!
People: Who?
Leader: The Creator!
People: What's he gonna do about it?
Leader: You will burn in a lake of fire forever!
People: He can do that?
Leader: Yes, he created everything and is all powerful!
<Happens to be a lightning storm at that moment>
Leader: See! You have invoked his wrath!!!! Bow down before him and beg forgiveness!
People: Ohhhh!

Even notice how many "supernatural" events happened in the Old Testement but seemed to quit in the New and in modern time? Were they made up and/or parlor tricks that ancient man fell for? How many of them were seen by just a select few? How many were events that happened naturally but the writers of the books of the Old Testament spun stories about how God did that to punish someone or to show his strength? BTW, most other ancient religions seemed to follow similiar party-lines: do what you are told or it will anger the gods! Many of them talk about similiar events but spin the tale a little differently..

Of course, the mere-mention of these questions make me rebelious and so on, heard it all before so don't bother... But I am interested in any discussion to those points that isn't just blind faith...

[thuxley]

Originally posted by USCRacerX



The Bible IS a great handbook for living, but the "tales" are hardly made up in my opinion. Christians, Muslims, and Jews alike acknowlege and make reference to Jesus. Yet it is only Christians who think (know) he is the Messiah. The stories of his miracles are written by his disciples at different times, yet reinforce each other. I can not discount these similar accounts as a conspiricy. It was years ago that skeptics said there was no Pontius Pilot, yet historians have unearthed proof that he indeed lived around the day of Jesus. Recently a burial box was found from that era inscribed "James, brother of Jesus". Many people including Harvard scientists with Phd's have tried for years to disprove God and Jesus. None have succeeded. All the while new pieces of history are unearthed that support Biblical accounts.



But aren't the most critical aspects of Christianity the ones that will never be proven by the historical record (the resurrection, Christ's divinity, virgin birth, miracles, etc)? And those of us who are skeptical or dismissive of these aspects don't necessarily think that there was a conspiracy. It would seem perfectly natural that the tales of Jesus' life would change and become mythologized by his followers as time went on.

Pointing out the corroborative evidence that Jesus or Pontius Pilot existed does nothing to "prove" the fundamental tenents of Christian faith. And what difference does it make if the "Harvard Phd's" you claim have failed to disprove Jesus? I can't disprove the existence of Unicorns but that fact hardly supports their existence. It always comes down to a simple matter of faith. Relying on logic or evidence is always a trap that the faithful (particularly the Christian faithful) should avoid.

[dave333]

Originally posted by wera176


I'm not sure that I follow... :confused: Must have missed all that in Sunday school.... I didn't mean that the Bible (or religions in general) teaches common sense, what I kinda meant was that in ancient times (and not so ancient times) religions were "created" (for lack of a better word and no pun intended) to control the masses, to extert power over people.

When things we can see, touch and understand are used properly and according to the instructions, they work optimally. A motor assembled according to the manufacturers specifications runs correctly. You put proper fuel, lubricants and coolant in the motor and it runs well.

We were never intended to be separated from God. Willful disobedience instigated the split. Christ closed the rift. When we accept the fact of Jesus' work done for us, our "motor" (spirit) is once again blueprinted. As we add the right fuel, the proper lubricants and correct coolant we can live life to it's fullest and really enjoy the best life has to offer. Reading and studying God's word, praying and hanging around other Christians are the fuel, lubricants and coolant. We can talk about tires tomorrow! :D :D :D

[RoadRacerX]

Originally posted by thuxley

Pointing out the corroborative evidence that Jesus or Pontius Pilot existed does nothing to "prove" the fundamental tenents of Christian faith. And what difference does it make if the "Harvard Phd's" you claim have failed to disprove Jesus? I can't disprove the existence of Unicorns but that fact hardly supports their existence. It always comes down to a simple matter of faith. Relying on logic or evidence is always a trap that the faithful (particularly the Christian faithful) should avoid.

You are right, my friend. It does come down to faith. My example was only to say that many of the accounts scoffed at by some in the past are actually proven to be correct by historians with new evidence. Like I said, I don't rely on this evidence. I rely on my faith.

[Tracee Polcin]

I know I said I was done with this thread but one more thing. Ya'll say God does things to make you stronger. Ok here's one, why does he allow innocent children to be abused, starved and killed? They are innocent, why would he let them suffer? A true God wouldn't let the innocent children suffer in my opinion. Should we just have "faith" that he is torturing children for their own good?

[Due North]

Tracee, faith is (in my opinion) an internal journey. I don't think that I (or anyone else) can impose faith on to you. I don't believe that God controls everything, but I do believe that I know the difference between right and wrong and that the abillity to think and reason are divine gifts.

From that, when the time comes I will answer for my actions.

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree


I'm too lazy to look for it but at the end of my comment to Due about my view I said this is my belief and if you don't agree then let it roll out like a tumbleweed. Not pushy at all Tracee. If you don't want to read about God being in control then move on.;)

If you truely believe in God, why are you too lazy to look for it? I'm trying to understand what I don't know. But you tell me if I don't want to read about God being in control, then to move on? Why wouldn't you want to educate somebody about something you believe in so fiercely? Please answer.

[Due North]

I think Laurie's point is she's not going to try to force it on you. She's open to discussing it, but in the end its up to you to decide what's best for you.

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin
Ok here's one, why does he allow innocent children to be abused, starved and killed? They are innocent, why would he let them suffer? A true God wouldn't let the innocent children suffer in my opinion. Should we just have "faith" that he is torturing children for their own good?

Within the Christian community there are various answers or responses to this standard question. Some believe that earthly suffering by all humans is the result of the sins of Adam and Eve (the Fall). Others respond that only God knows why innocents suffer and even asking the question is fruitless. A variation on the later belief is that God has a specific reason for the suffering and that you must trust that the reason is ultimately a good one. In any event, from a Christian perspective, earthly suffering -no matter how bad or seemingly unjust - can not even be measured in comparison to the potential for eternal and joyous life after death.

I think that earthly suffering is less problematic for Christian theology than the notion of a God who provides for eternal damnation. But that is another topic.

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by thuxley


Within the Christian community there are various answers or responses to this standard question. Some believe that earthly suffering by all humans is the result of the sins of Adam and Eve (the Fall). Others respond that only God knows why innocents suffer and even asking the question is fruitless. A variation on the later belief is that God has a specific reason for the suffering and that you must trust that the reason is ultimately a good one. In any event, from a Christian perspective, earthly suffering -no matter how bad or seemingly unjust - can not even be measured in comparison to the potential for eternal and joyous life after death.

I think that earthly suffering is less problematic for Christian theology than the notion of a God who provides for eternal damnation. But that is another topic.

So what you're saying is that their suffering just because God said so?:confused:

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Due North
I think Laurie's point is she's not going to try to force it on you. She's open to discussing it, but in the end its up to you to decide what's best for you.

But Due, she said she was too lazy to look. Wouldn't God punish her for being too lazy to do his work?:confused:

[Ex CCS Racer]

http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/signdeadend.gif

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Ex CCS Racer
http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/signdeadend.gif

I'm beggining to think you're right.

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


So what you're saying is that their suffering just because God said so?:confused:

no. a recap:
1. because Adam and Eve screwed up and brought suffering upon humanity by disobeying God.

or
2. you can't know why there is suffering until after you die.

[Ex CCS Racer]

Originally posted by thuxley


no. a recap:
1. because Adam and Eve screwed up and brought suffering upon humanity by disobeying God..

For sellin' lingerie:confused:


:D

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by thuxley


no. a recap:
1. because Adam and Eve screwed up and brought suffering upon humanity by disobeying God.

or
2. you can't know why there is suffering until after you die.

I don't think that is right, why shouldn't we know why there is suffereing until after we die. FYI when you die, that's it, no more, you're dead and you don't continue to live that's a proven fact.

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

FYI when you die, that's it, no more, you're dead and you don't continue to live that's a proven fact.

Hey, I'm an atheist, you are not going to get much argument from me but I'm curious how you've proven there is no afterlife?

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by thuxley


Hey, I'm an atheist, you are not going to get much argument from me but I'm curious how you've proven there is no afterlife?
Science has proven that. And have you ever met anyone from the afterlife?;)

[thuxley]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

Science has proven that. And have you ever met anyone from the afterlife?;)

You should inform the many theistic scientists that they missed an important proof then. I also never met anyone from Des Moines Iowa, does that mean they don't exist?

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by thuxley


I also never met anyone from Des Moines Iowa, does that mean they don't exist?

Not a good analogy because Des Moines is a city in the US and that city is populated according to the US Census.;)

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by Due North
I think Laurie's point is she's not going to try to force it on you. She's open to discussing it, but in the end its up to you to decide what's best for you.


Thank you Due. I like to share with people my blessings from my faith but I won't discuss it with people that call bs on what I believe on a public forum. If you have any questions on how I believe I would really like to hear from you Tracee, give me an email. :)

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Laurie Acree



Thank you Due. I like to share with people my blessings from my faith but I won't discuss it with people that call bs on what I believe on a public forum. If you have any questions on how I believe I would really like to hear from you Tracee, give me an email. :)

How can I email you when you don't allow people to email you per your profile?:confused:

[Due North]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


I don't think that is right, why shouldn't we know why there is suffereing until after we die. FYI when you die, that's it, no more, you're dead and you don't continue to live that's a proven fact.

Do you mean the 'body' or your entire existence?? The first axiom of faith is a belief in life after death. If you don't believe that, there's no way to discuss any of the other aspects.

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Due North


Do you mean the 'body' or your entire existence?? The first axiom of faith is a belief in life after death. If you don't believe that, there's no way to discuss any of the other aspects.

Well I guess there'sa no need for me to dicuss this any further because there is no life after death.

[Mongo]

Originally posted by mad brad


but wait, pope mongo said differently. ;)

And the quote of me saying that is where? And since when did I become a crippled old dude?!?

[Mongo]

Originally posted by mad brad


funny how he dropped that one eh? ;)

he also dropped the bruce/nancy thing.

Ummm, went to bed, not dropped. I can continue to prove to the world what an ass you are if you like - although I don't really see that you need my help.

Just for fun oh super duper Christian man - find me in the bible where it says you whould insult people. C'mon, just one reference to Jesus calling someone a fuckstick.

You want I can play all day :)

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin

Science has proven that. And have you ever met anyone from the afterlife?
Tracee, I'm often on your side but tht's just plain LAME

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by Mongo
I can continue to prove to the world what an ass you are if you like - although I don't really see that you need my help.

Chalk up a BIG one for Mongo http://freeconservatives.com/smilies/bounce.gif

[Tracee Polcin]

Originally posted by Eric

Tracee, I'm often on your side but tht's just plain LAME

Why is that Lame, Eric?

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Mongo


Ummm, went to bed, not dropped. I can continue to prove to the world what an ass you are if you like - although I don't really see that you need my help.

Just for fun oh super duper Christian man - find me in the bible where it says you whould insult people. C'mon, just one reference to Jesus calling someone a fuckstick.

You want I can play all day :)

Short. Sweet. Decisive. Mongo 2, That other guy 0 (Bonus point awarded for the line about Jesus calling someone a f*ckstick).

[wera176]

Originally posted by USCRacerX


You are right, my friend. It does come down to faith. My example was only to say that many of the accounts scoffed at by some in the past are actually proven to be correct by historians with new evidence. Like I said, I don't rely on this evidence. I rely on my faith.

Don't forget that some things that were taught by the Church were proven WRONG as well. Remember the whole "the Earth is the Center of the Universe" thing? The Church taught that since God created us, everything must revolve around us. When folks started to point out that was true, they were labelled as heretics and probably killed or ex-communicated.

[SV81]

I think that an offensive attack by the US is warranted in this case. The United States and the World have given Saddam since the Gulf War to completely disarm. A tyrant like him does not need weapons of mass destruction. He supports terrorism and actions against the United States. He states he does not have chemical agents, however is now handing out chemical war heads to his field commanders and telling them to use at their discretion. I thought he didnt have them. If he is not taken out now, the world in general will be worse off in the future I feel. As a former soldier the troops have my support 100% as does the President and his advisors. They know what they are doing, and remember, they cannot desiminate all of the intelligence that they have. Iraq used to be a middle class, highly educated society until Saddam came to power. He now rules as a dictator and a tyrant, executing those who do not agree with him, raping women, and using and testing chemical agents on his own people and that is fact. His sons are apparently worse than he is. If you look at somthing else, the reason China, Russia and France are not siding with us is because Iraq provides them with oil and jobs to their people. They will lose money. I cannot belive France will not support us after we have liberated them twice in history. I am sure their are WERA, NESBA, CCS, AMA and others out there who have been called to duty. Support them and all the soldiers 100% and pray for them. Trust your government like you trust your tires when racing eh. God bless and come home safe.

Sean

[Laurie Acree]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


How can I email you when you don't allow people to email you per your profile?:confused:


pm... whatever Tracee...what is wrong with you lately?

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Mongo


Ummm, went to bed, not dropped. I can continue to prove to the world what an ass you are if you like - although I don't really see that you need my help.

Just for fun oh super duper Christian man - find me in the bible where it says you whould insult people. C'mon, just one reference to Jesus calling someone a fuckstick.

You want I can play all day :)
'
well butt pirate, i already told you that tolerance of idiots and morons was jesus' racket. if i'm such an ass to you, why the hell did you come up and talk nice to me at daytona? next time just keep walking on. at least i'm not two-faced like you. ;)

[Mongo]

I talked nice because I am nice (at least I try to be), and I haven't been mean to you here yet.

If I weren't nice - or at least tolerant - you wouldn't be posting here.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - at times you have very good, valid points. However your insistence on insulting people keeps most everyone form readig anything you post. So why not try talking to people rather than insulting them and their ideas? Maybe people will actually listen to you and gain somehting form your input. Look at Tracee's posts - once he got away form the horseshit statement there was actually a very interesting discourse on different views of religion.

As for the tolerance thing, last I checked part of being a Christian (and please note you called yourself that, not me) was emulating Jesus. Leastways that's what I read the book to say. I really was curious in the beginning of all this how you can justify calling yourself a Christian with the way you act towards others.

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by Tracee Polcin


Why is that Lame, Eric?
cuz it just struck me that way:D
I can't see how science can prove or disprove it

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Mongo
I talked nice because I am nice (at least I try to be), and I haven't been mean to you here yet.

If I weren't nice - or at least tolerant - you wouldn't be posting here.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - at times you have very good, valid points. However your insistence on insulting people keeps most everyone form readig anything you post. So why not try talking to people rather than insulting them and their ideas? Maybe people will actually listen to you and gain somehting form your input. Look at Tracee's posts - once he got away form the horseshit statement there was actually a very interesting discourse on different views of religion.

As for the tolerance thing, last I checked part of being a Christian (and please note you called yourself that, not me) was emulating Jesus. Leastways that's what I read the book to say. I really was curious in the beginning of all this how you can justify calling yourself a Christian with the way you act towards others.

well, i'm sooooo lucky you won't be running tech at the pearly gates. actually, a christian believes that jesus was the son of god and died for their sins. but YOU say that if one emulates jesus more than the next guy, they'll have a better seat in heaven. ;)

oh, and EVERYONE here reads what i post. that's why half of them hate me, and the other half love me. of course, you can put me on ignore like rsdud. i mean that IS why he won't answer my original question. {even though others have asked him too}

[Mongo]

Originally posted by mad brad
actually, a christian believes that jesus was the son of god and died for their sins. but YOU say that if one emulates jesus more than the next guy, they'll have a better seat in heaven. ;)


If I said that then please post a quote of it because I sure can't find it, the whole thing about doing more to get preferential treatment is why the Catholic Church and I have issues.

I guess my real question the more I think about it is this - if you don't hold with the values that Jesus taught (which is fine, that's your call), why claim to be a Christian (i.e. follower of Christ)?

What I will say is this - in my opinion if you profess to be a Christian then you should at least make some effort to emulate Jesus. To do otherwise is at the least blasphemous and definitely hypocritical. If you odn't choose to emulate him and live life as HE spells out you should in the bible what's the point of being a Christian? It's like all the Catholics that believe they can do whatever they want and as long as they accept god on their deathbed they're cool for all sins - doesn't make a dang bit of sense. It's like saying God is an idiot and I can fool him into ignoring they way I acted for my whole life.

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Mongo



If I said that then please post a quote of it because I sure can't find it, the whole thing about doing more to get preferential treatment is why the Catholic Church and I have issues.

I guess my real question the more I think about it is this - if you don't hold with the values that Jesus taught (which is fine, that's your call), why claim to be a Christian (i.e. follower of Christ)?

What I will say is this - in my opinion if you profess to be a Christian then you should at least make some effort to emulate Jesus. To do otherwise is at the least blasphemous and definitely hypocritical. If you odn't choose to emulate him and live life as HE spells out you should in the bible what's the point of being a Christian? It's like all the Catholics that believe they can do whatever they want and as long as they accept god on their deathbed they're cool for all sins - doesn't make a dang bit of sense. It's like saying God is an idiot and I can fool him into ignoring they way I acted for my whole life.

i've already told you. you don't see me calling you a liar about your faith. my earlier point was, i am a christian, but i can't stand to see others rattling on about being one, and "praying" for those who aren't. you can do it your way, and i'll do it another. it is the ONE thing i refuse to argue with people about. you can worship tic tacs for all i care.

[sharkattack]

Originally posted by Congo2
You mention many of the churches and the beliefs on war. What are your feelings of the various churches history of conducting 'holy wars' and killing people solely based on religion or ethinic make up?:confused:

not trying to stir the pot, just looking for good discussion and opinions.

How about that Spanish Inquisition for example? Nothing like torturing non-believers. Ya' gotta love organized religion.:p

[Mongo]

Wasn't arguing with you about your faith at all, just curious how you justify calling yourself a Christian (which as I've said I had always understood to be a follower of Christ) with your actions here. Nothing more than that. As for calling me a liar about my faith - kind of hard to do when I've never once said what it is or isn't...

Oh yeah, RSDad did answer your question somewhere in the midst of all the other ranting and raving, sorry can't remember which thread.

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Mongo
Wasn't arguing with you about your faith at all, just curious how you justify calling yourself a Christian (which as I've said I had always understood to be a follower of Christ) with your actions here. Nothing more than that. As for calling me a liar about my faith - kind of hard to do when I've never once said what it is or isn't...

Oh yeah, RSDad did answer your question somewhere in the midst of all the other ranting and raving, sorry can't remember which thread.

yeah? well i found your quote on the "excuse me but" thread in the general colum. ;)

[Joss]

"oh, and EVERYONE here reads what i post."

This is probably a private "thing", but as long as you choose to included me in it ("EVERYONE"), Brad, you are wrong.

I have, for some time, just scrolled past what ever you post. Just like Mongo says; for the precise reason he gave. You have turned being an ass into "cute", as something of a "persona". After a while, though, the cute wears off. It's not worth the BS to sift through to find the "worthwhile".

It is only now as we approached this war that I started scanning thru your posts again.

How you write is your business. But, no, everyone does NOT read what you post.

[Due North]

Originally posted by sharkattack


How about that Spanish Inquisition for example? Nothing like torturing non-believers. Ya' gotta love organized religion.:p

You're confusing The Church and Religion. That's the danger of putting your trust in a man.

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Joss
"oh, and EVERYONE here reads what i post."

This is probably a private "thing", but as long as you choose to included me in it ("EVERYONE"), Brad, you are wrong.

I have, for some time, just scrolled past what ever you post. Just like Mongo says; for the precise reason he gave. You have turned being an ass into "cute", as something of a "persona". After a while, though, the cute wears off. It's not worth the BS to sift through to find the "worthwhile".

It is only now as we approached this war that I started scanning thru your posts again.

How you write is your business. But, no, everyone does NOT read what you post.

dear moron, if you don't read my posts.................... yeah, you are right. :rolleyes:

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by Joss
turned being an ass into "cute", ... though, the cute wears off.
Exactly why I finally put him on "ignore," the venom was too much to read, viscious is not cute

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Eric

Exactly why I finally put him on "ignore," the venom was too much to read, viscious is not cute

oh no, i've lost some "power". well, eric, your little dive bomb posts aren't cute either.

[Mongo]

Originally posted by mad brad


yeah? well i found your quote on the "excuse me but" thread in the general colum. ;)

It's over here now and it still doesn't prove what you're trying to say I said. Even out of context it doesn't work.

[Mongo]

What, no more 2 front discussion? :)

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Mongo
What, no more 2 front discussion? :)

nah, just didn't know how to pull your quote onto another thread. :D

[Mongo]

Works for me, I gotta quit soon though, time to go pack for Roebling so I may have to continue this Monday....

[thuxley]

Originally posted by mad brad

you can do it your way, and i'll do it another. it is the ONE thing i refuse to argue with people about. you can worship tic tacs for all i care.

is it possible that you could extend your live-and-let-live attitude about people's religious beliefs to their sexual preferences as well? or is that asking too much?

[mad brad]

Originally posted by thuxley


is it possible that you could extend your live-and-let-live attitude about people's religious beliefs to their sexual preferences as well? or is that asking too much?

not touching that one.

[Mongo]

Originally posted by mad brad


not touching that one.

Me either. But that doesn't mean other people shouldn't touch it if they want to :D




Yep, yep, it's a wartime slay!

:D

[Joss]

"...time to go pack for Roebling..."

Better pack some flippers.

We have had T-Storm/Tornado warnings/watches one after another all afternoon.

I think I could shoot the next person that says, ".... wail, we need th' rahyn..." :Puke:

[RSDad]

Originally posted by Mongo
Wasn't arguing with you about your faith at all, just curious how you justify calling yourself a Christian (which as I've said I had always understood to be a follower of Christ) with your actions here. Nothing more than that. As for calling me a liar about my faith - kind of hard to do when I've never once said what it is or isn't...

Oh yeah, RSDad did answer your question somewhere in the midst of all the other ranting and raving, sorry can't remember which thread.

I've answered it repeatedly. I don't think anyone has any doubts where I stand.

[mad brad]

Originally posted by RSDad


I've answered it repeatedly. I don't think anyone has any doubts where I stand.

will someone please find the answer to my question from rsdud?

[Jackie Chiles]

My answer isn't good enough for you?;)

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Rodger Doyle
My answer isn't good enough for you?;)

not really. but i am looking for rsdud's answer. did you find it?

[Jackie Chiles]

Didn't look.

Golden or Dry?

[mad brad]

Originally posted by Rodger Doyle
Didn't look.

Golden or Dry?

boy, put down the toy beers. may i interest you in some maker's mark whiskey?

[wera176]

Originally posted by mad brad


boy, put down the toy beers. may i interest you in some maker's mark whiskey?

I've heard that whiskey makes some folks mean... ;) (And yes, a little Maker's and Coke would be right nice 'bout now...) :D

[mad brad]

Originally posted by wera176


I've heard that whiskey makes some folks mean... ;)

how can that be? i drink it all the time, and i'm not mean? :D

[SOFG]

Originally posted by mad brad


how can that be? i drink it all the time, and i'm not mean? :D

Now we know where Brad's EVIL power comes from. Take away the MM and he would turn into RSDad!:D

Drank a bunch of Jack Danials as a kid and it did make me mean.

[Jackie Chiles]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rodger Doyle
Didn't look.

Golden or Dry?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Brad responded: "boy, put down the toy beers. may i interest you in some maker's mark whiskey?"

Brad, I was taling about the "shower" I was going to give you, not beers.



:D




:D




:D



I slay me!!!

Rodger

[I'm with Stupid]

Originally posted by Rodger Doyle
Brad, I was taling about the "shower" I was going to give you, not beers.

Rodger, can you keep the details of your kinky sex life off the BBS, please? I don't need to know :Puke:

[RSDad]

Originally posted by SlowAndScared


Rodger, can you keep the details of your kinky sex life off the BBS, please? I don't need to know :Puke:

Maybe Mongo can start another category?:p

[wera176]

Originally posted by SOFG


Now we know where Brad's EVIL power comes from. Take away the MM and he would turn into RSDad!:D

Drank a bunch of Jack Danials as a kid and it did make me mean.

So what happens if we get RSDad to drink some Tequila or Jaegermeister? :eek:

Or Wild Turkey? :Puke:

Me? Just shut the h@ll up and pass a (real) Black-n-Tan. Makes me a happy drunk! :D

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Due North


So God choose President Bush?? :confused:
Yes, after Al Gore claimed that he invented the universe! :p

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by JohnnyB

Yes, after Al Gore claimed that he invented the universe! :p
No, not quite, Al invented God :D

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Eric

No, not quite, Al invented God :D
Too bad he invented the Electoral College! :D

Just to throw in something towards this thread, it was explained to me than humans were given a free will by God (So as not to be boring creatures set on autopilot.) and that it was up to us to figure out his will. Those of us who don't spawn evil.
Unfortunately, this point was missed by a lot of stark raving sober saps at the AA meetings who were prone to screw people over, then shrug and say that it was "God's will".
BTW, if you watched the "Saddam and Satan" episode of South Park, you'd realize that the Mormons got it right. The rest of us are going to Hell!

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by JohnnyB
sober saps at the AA meetings who were prone to screw people over, then shrug and say that it was "God's will".
take it easy on my cousins there, they ain't the only ones pulling that kind of crap. Not to hijack the thread (Gawd forbid !!!) but overall the 12-steppers help a lot of otherwise helpess folk. Why talk about shucking blame-- there's excuse-making/taking jackasses everywhere (e.g. Kurtis he-made-me-lose R.) :D

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Eric
take it easy on my cousins there, they ain't the only ones pulling that kind of crap.
Hell, I damn near called Central Service to threaten a lawsuit! After somebody tried to move into my house behind my back and then sent his sponsor and his whole group after me when I stopped him, my sponsor was trying to film his wife having lesbian sex with her pidgeons (those unfamiliar with the lingo are going to choke on that one!), a couple of suicides by 13th steppers gone bad, etc., etc., I decided I was safer in the real world. So far they're the only ones to actually blame God for their behavior.
I'll have 18 years down in a week.

[SpongeBob WeaselPants]

Originally posted by JohnnyB
my sponsor was trying to film his wife having lesbian sex with her pidgeons
can you at least go back long enuf to get the films and share with a brother? :D