"The Surge": Bush Administration bribing Iraqi Insurgents to not shoot at U.S. troops

[hrvat2]

Seems like the U.S. taxpayers, for the most part unknowingly, wrote a $300,000,000 dollar check to Sunni and other insurgent groups (i.e. Muhtada AlSadr) to not shoot at us. We're bribing the sons of bitches to not pull the trigger. :down:

In the mean time, our media is happy to keep this under the covers and leave us with the impression that adding extra 30k troops is what's the reason behind the "relative" calm.

"Petraeus seems to have concluded that it was essential to cut deals with the Sunni insurgents if he was going to succeed in reducing U.S. casualties,” Macgregor says.
The military now calls those “deals” the Concerned Local Citizens program or simply, CLCs.
It’s a somewhat abstract euphemism. The CLC program turns groups of former insurgents, including fighters for al-Qaida in Iraq, into paid, temporary allies of the U.S. military.

McCaffrey just got back from a five-day trip to Iraq where, he says, he “went to a couple of these CLCs, you know, five awkward-looking guys with their own AKs standing at a road junction with two magazines of ammunition—and they’re there as early warning to protect their families in that village. I think that that’s good.”

Creating a New Force

Some 70,000 former insurgents are now being paid $10 a day by the U.S. military. It costs about a quarter billion dollars a year."


Do a news search, widely reported on the web but hasn't made it to CBS, NBC or FOX yet (???)

If you can't beat them, bribe them.
No wonder the war in Iraq is costing the U.S. Treasury $3-5 billion per week.

P.S. Next time you hear John McCain or Sara Palin make a statement that the surge is working, try not to vomit :Puke:

[steeltoe]

Now you've gone and done it.

[Crashfest]

Bribing them is cheaper then fighting them. 300 million is cost of one day of the war. Fighting 70,000 insurgents would cost additional tens of billions and result in hundreds of Americans and thousands of innocent Iraqis getting killed.

Don't really see the problem here. Sound like an effective use of resources.

[Marcmcm]

P.S. Next time you hear John McCain or Sara Palin make a statement that the surge is working, try not to vomit :Puke:


I believe your candidate Barack said "The surge has worked beyond our wildest dreams"

[Spyderchick]

This was reported in a number of news magazines many months ago.

If the American Taxpayer would stop watching "Dancing with the Stars" and read a little more, they would know this shit.

[Robert]

Dude, this isn't news. The CLCs, more properly known as the “Sons of Iraq,” are simply being paid a salary to do a job. They are a key reason why violence is down.

Control of about half of them (50k+) was handed over to Maliki two days ago and the concern is that since they are Sunni, his Shiite govt may disband them.

Last time a large Iraqi milita group became unemployed it didn't work out so hot..

[ryoung57]

The reason a lot of those guys are fighting against us it not ideals, religion, patriotism, nationalism, or any of that BS, it's MONEY. Most of the "insurgents" are actually paid fighters, doing what they do just to feed their families. Whether it's taking pot shots at troops, making bombs, setting up roadside ieds, or strapping bombs to themselves and going to market, they're doing it because they have no jobs, no way to take care of their dependents. Think about it; you're broke, you have electricity for one hour every other day to cook your food (if you've got any), you have no running water, nothing to do at all, then some guy comes along and tells you it's all the American's fault. He gives you $100 and an AK and tells you it's your duty to go shoot a soldier, and that if you die you'll be a martyer and his organization will take care of your family. Of course you do it.

The way this war will be won is not with rifles and tanks, it's with cell phones, McDonalds, MTV, DVD's, strip malls, and cheap and plentiful creature comforts. Once these people see that we can give them electricity, air conditioning, satellite tv, a new car, and a good job to pay for it all, they'll be too busy keeping up with the Joneses to care about shooting anybody.

These CLC's are the beginning of this. Now that they're not being shot at on every corner, the contractors and troops can get down to business fixing the infrastructure of the country and getting rid of the really bad guys so the citizens of Iraq can get back to living the American Dream (sic).

[steeltoe]

The reason a lot of those guys are fighting against us it not ideals, religion, patriotism, nationalism, or any of that BS, it's MONEY. Most of the "insurgents" are actually paid fighters, doing what they do just to feed their families. Whether it's taking pot shots at troops, making bombs, setting up roadside ieds, or strapping bombs to themselves and going to market, they're doing it because they have no jobs, no way to take care of their dependents. Think about it; you're broke, you have electricity for one hour every other day to cook your food (if you've got any), you have no running water, nothing to do at all, then some guy comes along and tells you it's all the American's fault. He gives you $100 and an AK and tells you it's your duty to go shoot a soldier, and that if you die you'll be a martyer and his organization will take care of your family. Of course you do it.

You talking about Blackwater again?

[Buster]

You talking about Blackwater again?

:D

[tzrider]

I believe your candidate Barack said "The surge has worked beyond our wildest dreams"

But but but your VP choice repeated the opposite about the Obama statement yesterday.

But you're the one that is correct... <Ponders>

<Whispers> Do you enjoy beer and what are your plans for the next four years? :D

[hrvat2]

Dude, this isn't news. The CLCs, more properly known as the “Sons of Iraq,” are simply being paid a salary to do a job. They are a key reason why violence is down.

Control of about half of them (50k+) was handed over to Maliki two days ago and the concern is that since they are Sunni, his Shiite govt may disband them.

Last time a large Iraqi milita group became unemployed it didn't work out so hot..

Been busy at work and clearly not up to speed (where was the thread discussing this on the BBS? After all, don't we all get our news on da BEEBS :D)

While this is all kewl and works in the short term, think about the cost (not just monetary) in the long term :tut:. This will be a disaster for the future administrations

[999]

When is the end date for the bribes, and what do you think will happen when we stop bribing them?

Bribing them is cheaper then fighting them. 300 million is cost of one day of the war. Fighting 70,000 insurgents would cost additional tens of billions and result in hundreds of Americans and thousands of innocent Iraqis getting killed.

Don't really see the problem here. Sound like an effective use of resources.

[RCjohn]

The reason a lot of those guys are fighting against us it not ideals, religion, patriotism, nationalism, or any of that BS, it's MONEY. Most of the "insurgents" are actually paid fighters, doing what they do just to feed their families. Whether it's taking pot shots at troops, making bombs, setting up roadside ieds, or strapping bombs to themselves and going to market, they're doing it because they have no jobs, no way to take care of their dependents. Think about it; you're broke, you have electricity for one hour every other day to cook your food (if you've got any), you have no running water, nothing to do at all, then some guy comes along and tells you it's all the American's fault. He gives you $100 and an AK and tells you it's your duty to go shoot a soldier, and that if you die you'll be a martyer and his organization will take care of your family. Of course you do it.



Sounds sort of like our military but just a little different pay scale. A huge portion of our military are in because it's the best job they could find. ;)

[RCjohn]

Been busy at work and clearly not up to speed (where was the thread discussing this on the BBS? After all, don't we all get our news on da BEEBS :D)

While this is all kewl and works in the short term, think about the cost (not just monetary, in the long term :tut:). This will be a disaster for the future administrationS

We discussed it on here a little while back. :up:

[Robert]

Been busy at work and clearly not up to speed (where was the thread discussing this on the BBS? After all, don't we all get our news on da BEEBS :D)

While this is all kewl and works in the short term, think about the cost (not just monetary, in the long term :tut:). This will be a disaster for the future administrationS

It may be the single, smartest thing the US army has done in Iraq. Unemployment is at 60% and if they can't feed or protect their families they will rejoin militias or possibly even seek out al Queda again. If Rumsfeld or Bremer had paid the Iraqi soldiers in the first place instead of disbanding their army, the US would have saved about $500 billion and probably thousands of lives.

[Buster]

It may be the single, smartest thing the US army has done in Iraq. Unemployment is at 60% and if they can't feed or protect their families they will rejoin militias or possibly even seek out al Queda again. If Rumsfeld or Bremer had paid the Iraqi soldiers in the first place instead of disbanding their army, the US would have saved about $500 billion and probably thousands of lives.

The point that needs to be made here is that many of the groups that we were calling Al Qaeda were really just Sunni militiamen.

[HonZuki]

When is the end date for the bribes, and what do you think will happen when we stop bribing them?

They come a knockin to collect the IOU's???
So we are now teaching them how to extort us in the future.:down:

[HonZuki]

The point that needs to be made here is that many of the groups that we were calling Al Qaeda were really just Sunni militiamen.

You sir need to join Alexa. You are now speaking gibberish and devil talk. We all know they are the Taliban in Iraq.:D:D:D:D:D:beer::beer::Poke::D:D

[hrvat2]

Bribing them is cheaper then fighting them. 300 million is cost of one day of the war. Fighting 70,000 insurgents would cost additional tens of billions and result in hundreds of Americans and thousands of innocent Iraqis getting killed.

Don't really see the problem here. Sound like an effective use of resources.

Take $300 million and multiply by 10 years. 15?
The real point, however, is that you've made yourself a hostage of your bad policy; you no longer have the option to stop making these payments for as soon as you do the friggin' place will ignite and by that time all of the payments you've rendered in the past will have been for nothing and you'll have to expend additional monies to "take care of business" at that time. You'll also be paying the opportunity cost of not having those funds for other liabilities, not to mention interest on already owned sums.
You've bought yourself a vacation but you've placed that cost on a credit card with adjustable terms... Enjoy it, for when you're back it'll take alot of hard back-braking work to pay off.

[hrvat2]

We discussed it on here a little while back. :up:

I'm gettin' old :D

[HonZuki]

Take $300 million and multiply by 10 years. 15?
The real point, however, is that you've made yourself a hostage of your bad policy; you no longer have the option to stop making these payments for as soon as you do the friggin' place will ignite and by that time all of the payments you've rendered in the past will have been for nothing and you'll have to expend additional monies to "take care of business" at that time. You'll also be paying the opportunity cost of not having those funds for other liabilities, not to mention interest on already owned sums.
You've bought yourself a vacation but you've placed that cost on a credit card with adjustable terms... Enjoy it, for when you're back it'll take alot of hard back-braking work to pay off.

What is the problem with that plan? It worked for the Banks, well almost maybe it will be different this time.

Are you looking for a seat in the stage coach that is hauling the other 2 off because of their gibberish and devil talk?:beer::beer::D:D:D:Poke::D

[hrvat2]

It may be the single, smartest thing the US army has done in Iraq. Unemployment is at 60% and if they can't feed or protect their families they will rejoin militias or possibly even seek out al Queda again. If Rumsfeld or Bremer had paid the Iraqi soldiers in the first place instead of disbanding their army, the US would have saved about $500 billion and probably thousands of lives.

All they've done is bought time, time to allow the Iraqi government to make political progress. Unfortunately there has been very little progress made and the treasury is not an endless pit (despite what the politicians think), and neither is the public's patience. As soon as the clock runs out we'll be to square one.

This money would have been better spent by investing into infrastructure while making sure that fraud is minimized.

[Robert]

The point that needs to be made here is that many of the groups that we were calling Al Qaeda were really just Sunni militiamen.

My understanding is the insurgents were Iraqis but al Queda in Iraq was almost entirely foreigners. The al Queda bombings killed too many Iraqis which eventually led to the Anbar Awakening, to boot them out.

[RCjohn]

All they've done is bought time, time to allow the Iraqi government to make political progress. Unfortunately there has been very little progress made and the treasury is not an endless pit (despite what the politicians think), and neither is the public's patience. As soon as the clock runs out we'll be to square one.

This money would have been better spent by investing into infrastructure while making sure that fraud is minimized.

How do you get that they have made little progress? Seems to me they've made a lot considering there was no government before. They are now negotiating how to take over control of their own country. They still have a ways to go but that's quite a bit of progress in my opinion.

[dtalbott]

Take $300 million and multiply by 10 years. 15?
The real point, however, is that you've made yourself a hostage of your bad policy; you no longer have the option to stop making these payments for as soon as you do the friggin' place will ignite and by that time all of the payments you've rendered in the past will have been for nothing and you'll have to expend additional monies to "take care of business" at that time. You'll also be paying the opportunity cost of not having those funds for other liabilities, not to mention interest on already owned sums.
You've bought yourself a vacation but you've placed that cost on a credit card with adjustable terms... Enjoy it, for when you're back it'll take alot of hard back-braking work to pay off.

Hmmm. Sounds like our welfare system.

[Buster]

My understanding is the insurgents were Iraqis but al Queda in Iraq was almost entirely foreigners. The al Queda bombings killed too many Iraqis which eventually led to the Anbar Awakening, to boot them out.

That distinction didn't/doesn't matter to most Americans, especially those who support(ed) the war. They're all just 'terrists'. :D

My understanding is that the much of the leadership of AQI and the suicide bombers were foreigners but the other 90% were pissed off Iraqis.

[Robert]

That distinction didn't/doesn't matter to most Americans, especially those who support(ed) the war. They're all just 'terrists'. :D

My understanding is that the much of the leadership of AQI and the suicide bombers were foreigners but the other 90% were pissed off Iraqis.

One thing for sure is they were paid. Nobody dies for free!

Easiest way to make sense of it: The Shiites are afraid of the past, the Sunnis are afraid of the future and the Kurds are afraid of both.

:D

[hrvat2]

How do you get that they have made little progress? Seems to me they've made a lot considering there was no government before. They are now negotiating how to take over control of their own country. They still have a ways to go but that's quite a bit of progress in my opinion.

Easy; it's all relative. Where you are in the process depends on how far you've got to go, and by those standards although the Iraqi government is much further along then they have ever been, they're still far, far away from where they need to be. And with the United States footing the bill and being the primary party concerned with minimizing internal unrest, this is likely to continue into the foreseable future. After all, the now-being-subsidized-by-the-U.S. taxpayer militias, are used to having a steady stream of income and I'd not be surprised if they wanted to keep things that way ;)

We're in deep shit.

[lrrs517]

Kinda like making a deal with N. Korea not to build/takedown nuclear sites.

[hrvat2]

Whatchya talkin' 'bout Willis ... that worked like a charm ;)