Death........

[gpstar748]

After my near death experience in which I broke my neck in a car accident..........I have been thinking about a few things

An unhappy life is not worth living..........I would rather live life, have fun and experience everything I want/am able to and die happy

If I die in the process then so be it, everyone dies sometime

Why so many people who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish and any religion that believes in some sort of Heaven or afterlife so death fearing???

I was raised Christian but I wouldnt call myself a religious person............after what I have learned from my upbringings and my religion/philosophy class in college Heaven or the "afterlife" of your religion seems pretty damn nice, why fear death so much??

This is probably one of those questions that cant really be answered but any opinions??

[jkhonea]

Hard to say. The fear of the unknown is a lot of it, I believe. Mankind loves to deal in concrete facts and images, and there is nothing less concrete than the afterlife. While we that are religious are taught basically what the afterlife is supposed to be like, no one knows. And that's what terrifies people. Even I'll admit, when I think too much, I get nervous wondering exactly what will happen when my time comes. Thus, I try not to think about it too terribly much.

[bigjoker247]

I worry more about what I can do with my time living than what is going to happen after I die. I figure if you are satisfied with the present, then the future is never that scary.

[bigjoker247]

Oh yeah, Brandon, how are you comming along? I read your post when the accident first happend. Is everything healing properly with your neck? I hope so and look foward to seeing you back at the tracks next year, given that I heal up too : )

[charles]

No one has a goddamn clue about what takes place after death.
You either 'believe' (in something) or you don't. Yes, some people,
probably multi-billions of people, are scared shitless of dying.
I don't fancy it myself, and try to avoid it as much as possible.
Some people avoid it so much they don't really live.
But sooner or later, we all face it square on.
We'll each know then what we don't know now.
In the meanwhile, live it up!:up:

[(diet)DrThunder]

Hard to say. The fear of the unknown is a lot of it, I believe. Mankind loves to deal in concrete facts and images, and there is nothing less concrete than the afterlife. While we that are religious are taught basically what the afterlife is supposed to be like, no one knows. And that's what terrifies people. Even I'll admit, when I think too much, I get nervous wondering exactly what will happen when my time comes. Thus, I try not to think about it too terribly much.

I don't think it's hard to say at all. The obvious answer is that only a tiny fraction of people who profess faith actually have it...I don't see how there could be any other explanation.

If a person truly has faith that there is an afterlife, and they truly believe in their particular supreme being being their savior, etc. then there would be no fear of death.

I mean, you go 80 in your car because you believe that when you hit the brakes you'll stop, right? Do you sail along at 80 in constant fear because you're really not all that sure about that whole 'brakes' thing? Of course not.

[Cuddles de Sade]

best part about death is you won't know when it happens...

I totally agree with live your life for today...enjoy every moment, like it might be your last. :bow:

[yetidave]

Death is as much a part of life as life itself. No one gets out alive, etc..etc. I don't fear death, I fear being maimed. But I guess that's another discussion.

[R Acree]

I don't think it's hard to say at all. The obvious answer is that only a tiny fraction of people who profess faith actually have it...I don't see how there could be any other explanation.

If a person truly has faith that there is an afterlife, and they truly believe in their particular supreme being being their savior, etc. then there would be no fear of death.

I mean, you go 80 in your car because you believe that when you hit the brakes you'll stop, right? Do you sail along at 80 in constant fear because you're really not all that sure about that whole 'brakes' thing? Of course not.

A bit of oversimplification, but reasonably accurate. Faith does not eliminate fear entirely but I've seen enough people of faith die without fear that I'm comfortable with your summary. That still does not make it easy to let go of family and friends.

[(diet)DrThunder]

A bit of oversimplification, but reasonably accurate. Faith does not eliminate fear entirely but I've seen enough people of faith die without fear that I'm comfortable with your summary. That still does not make it easy to let go of family and friends.

I'm with you...faith would provide a good counterbalance when a loved one is lost, but it's not going to magically turn off grief and sorrow.

[jkhonea]

I'm with you...faith would provide a good counterbalance when a loved one is lost, but it's not going to magically turn off grief and sorrow.

Exactly.:up:

[charles]

I don't think it's hard to say at all. The obvious answer is that only a tiny fraction of people who profess faith actually have it...I don't see how there could be any other explanation.

If a person truly has faith that there is an afterlife, and they truly believe in their particular supreme being being their savior, etc. then there would be no fear of death.

I mean, you go 80 in your car because you believe that when you hit the brakes you'll stop, right? Do you sail along at 80 in constant fear because you're really not all that sure about that whole 'brakes' thing? Of course not.

Being serious (and not attempting humor), aren't you setting aside a purely 'physical' side of life, i.e., inate drive to live? By whatever description you choose, biological or philosophical, life withdraws from extinction, shrinks from annnihilation. I might add 'healthy' life, not pathological. Fear of death is healthy, in my view. Understanding and accepting death is also healthy.
Seeking death and killing is not healthy or acceptable under most conditions, but there are exceptions to that. Having written this, I have met some individuals who believe that it is acceptable to kill and/or die in the name of a 'higher being' (entity), but it was (is ) not clear to me if this was something they as individuals truly arrived at strictly on their own accord, or if it was something they were led to believe (for an ulterior purpose). Strange, this world...how easily we are led, allow ourselves to be led down paths not of our own making.

[panthercity]

Can't speak to Muslim or Jewish beliefs, butt if you are raised with (and accept) the Christian concept of "original sin" you then spend the rest of your life trying to "earn" your way into Heaven and are terrified that you won't measure up and will spend eternity in either Purgatory or Hell.

[charles]

Can't speak to Muslim or Jewish beliefs, butt if you are raised with (and accept) the Christian concept of "original sin" you then spend the rest of your life trying to "earn" your way into Heaven and are terrified that you won't measure up and will spend eternity in either Purgatory or Hell.

Are you certain about this? Don't some Christian groups have a decree that all
are saved when they accept Jesus into their lives?

Can we now sell "indulgence slips" like in the old days, that would kinda make
the journey less painful for some folks?

Errr...just wanted to know, how hard is Purgatory, like BUDS/SEAL training or
more like just waiting with nothing to do?

And while I'm at it, how 'long' is Eternity? Everyting has its limits, and it is
high time someone gets this straight. How long and how do you know?

[R Acree]

Are you certain about this? Don't some Christian groups have a decree that all
are saved when they accept Jesus into their lives?

Can we now sell "indulgence slips" like in the old days, that would kinda make
the journey less painful for some folks?

Errr...just wanted to know, how hard is Purgatory, like BUDS/SEAL training or
more like just waiting with nothing to do?

And while I'm at it, how 'long' is Eternity? Everyting has its limits, and it is
high time someone gets this straight. How long and how do you know?
Purgatory and indulgences are more of a Catholic thing. Most Protestant denominations don't subscribe to either.

[(diet)DrThunder]

Being serious (and not attempting humor), aren't you setting aside a purely 'physical' side of life, i.e., inate drive to live? By whatever description you choose, biological or philosophical, life withdraws from extinction, shrinks from annnihilation. I might add 'healthy' life, not pathological. Fear of death is healthy, in my view. Understanding and accepting death is also healthy.

I'm with you 100%, but none of that addresses the idea that if you have Faith, then you wouldn't have those fear impulses. I mean, sure, everyone would have moments of doubt, but in the end, your faith would carry the day.

I fear death in some regard...a have fears that I might die and leave my family to fend for itself, etc. But, if I had true Faith that this life on earth was just a brief interlude leading to eternity in Heaven because I had accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior (to borrow Christianity for a moment), what would i have to fear? Heck, I'd almost be looking forward to death at least a little.

Also, none of this is meant as an argument against any religion...all I said was that I think the vast majority of people aren't honest with themselves, and they really don't have the faith that they profess. I know that there are people who do have this strength of faith, and I'll bet you know at least one or two...and they are not afraid of death.

[charles]

I'm with you 100%, but none of that addresses the idea that if you have Faith, then you wouldn't have those fear impulses. I mean, sure, everyone would have moments of doubt, but in the end, your faith would carry the day.

I fear death in some regard...a have fears that I might die and leave my family to fend for itself, etc. But, if I had true Faith that this life on earth was just a brief interlude leading to eternity in Heaven because I had accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior (to borrow Christianity for a moment), what would i have to fear? Heck, I'd almost be looking forward to death at least a little.

Also, none of this is meant as an argument against any religion...all I said was that I think the vast majority of people aren't honest with themselves, and they really don't have the faith that they profess. I know that there are people who do have this strength of faith, and I'll bet you know at least one or two...and they are not afraid of death.

Understood. But, given the choice between life and death (if no one else
was involved), how many would actually choose death when one can live?
I am of the opinion that most simply do not practice what they profess,
but that's not a faith issue, is it?

[charles]

Purgatory and indulgences are more of a Catholic thing. Most Protestant denominations don't subscribe to either.

C'mon, now, answer my questions! I have a need to know.

[Super Dave]

Death is as much a part of life as life itself. No one gets out alive, etc..etc. I don't fear death, I fear being maimed. But I guess that's another discussion.

Yeah, it's the pain in getting there or the length of pain. My mother's cancer took years. As a result, my father had a different idea on the course of action he would go through if he had cancer. His passage from diagnosis to passing was six days.

[panthercity]

Are you certain about this? Don't some Christian groups have a decree that all
are saved when they accept Jesus into their lives? The only thing I'm "certain" about is that all that I am and all that I have I owe to my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

I understand that some brands of Christianity preach that if you truly ask for forgiveness and accept Christ into your heart, you're good to go. No one I've ever talked to or listened to has had first person experience to back up that idea.

Can we now sell "indulgence slips" like in the old days, that would kinda make
the journey less painful for some folks?Sure, go ahead and sell `em right next to the Carbon Credits or whatever they're called. I wouldn't count on that money-back guarantee if they don't work, though...

Errr...just wanted to know, how hard is Purgatory, like BUDS/SEAL training or
more like just waiting with nothing to do?I've no direct experience, consequently can not answer your question without becoming either a preacher, politician or used-car salesman.

And while I'm at it, how 'long' is Eternity? Everyting has its limits, and it is
high time someone gets this straight. How long and how do you know?See above, although I visualize it as a mobius strip made of fly paper constantly burning in an alcohol flame...

[Hawk518]

I make an effort to do one thing, have the ability to rest my head comfortably at night. If I can do that, with a clear conscience, I have done my job for the day.

In absence of faith, I live knowing that this is it.

I did have a Nun (teacher) in Catholic School that addressed some crying students after the untimely death of another student and reminded him that "he had gone up to Heaven and was now with the Lord".

I have never forgotten what she said, so I also don't understand the fear that believer show with respect to their passing.

[yetidave]

Yeah, it's the pain in getting there or the length of pain. My mother's cancer took years. As a result, my father had a different idea on the course of action he would go through if he had cancer. His passage from diagnosis to passing was six days.

I'm sorry to hear that.
I've told my wife that given the option of wasting away either mentally or physically or going out on my own terms, I'm going with door number two. Put me on a bike and point me at a cliff.

[Super Dave]

I have never forgotten what she said, so I also don't understand the fear that believer show with respect to their passing.

Well, being a believer doesn't take away the human side. Who want's to die, really? Yes, eliminate those that wish to commit suicide, etc.

We all want to be with our families and friends. Most of us always want to accomplish more, be here to see things, and so on.

I can look to today as the possible end of my days, but I have things planned for next week, next month, next year. I want to see my kids grow up, accomplish things, maybe fail along the way, stand up and then carry on.

I would have loved for my mom to grow old and have time with my kids that she never got to meet. I didn't have her at my wedding as she passed about a month before. It was sad, and that's human, isn't it? I feel she's in a better place. Cancer and life was a creshendo of pain that left her a shell of what she was before.

[Super Dave]

I'm sorry to hear that.
I've told my wife that given the option of wasting away either mentally or physically or going out on my own terms, I'm going with door number two. Put me on a bike and point me at a cliff.

Thanks, Dave. It's twelve years ago now, which is just a big "wow" in my head because I can remember the last week in the hospital and the respite care center like it happened ten minutes ago.

What will I do? I don't know. My mom had unfinished business. She was a fighter, and a nurse, so it was in her mindset to go after it. I think she was 56 when she was diagnosed with cancer, then died a couple months after turning 60. Teaches you a lot about reality when you're helping put away bread and stuff and your mom says, "Even if I beat the cancer, my life expectancy after that is only five to ten years."

At this point in my life, I'd fight for a while. The treatments get better, and I've got things to do and accomplish. Why let another thing get in the way and control your life. Yeah, it'd be much easier to ride off a big cliff too. It'd probably be easier and cheaper for me to have been a bowler too, but I like racing. I like living right now, so I'd fight it until that value has changed.

It's double edged. You get killed in a car crash, you don't get time to prepare or say goodbye. My dad's journey was faster, but the years after my mom past allowed him more time to plan for his eventual passing. He didn't have a need to try to beat it at 72. But it's still hard to watch it happen. You'd like it to end as you're there with them telling them that you're there with them and you're unsure if you're getting through, holding onto cold hands that the circulation has stopped moving to. It's a process, I guess, but it still sucks. Still, I had opportunities in those hours leading up to that that I value greatly.

Doing the cancer thing with the kids is related. You get to meet these families that are struggling with the life of their child. A lot of unsaid stuff goes on. Sometimes, you're just looking for one more day. Some kids are just happy to make it to kindergarten. Some make it further, graduating from high school.

Without a feeling of faith on some kind of spiritual level, I wonder if some just look at individuals potentially terminal diseases as people that should be put out of their misery. My sister is special needs too, and I know that some would have made different decisions on her birth and then my mother and father's decision to adopt her. I know that our family doctor made the recommendation to my mom that they not adopt her. I think she has a fine life, although she's not able to have one quite the same way as mine or others.

[HPPT]

Understood. But, given the choice between life and death (if no one else
was involved), how many would actually choose death when one can live?
I would.

[yetidave]

Doing the cancer thing with the kids is related. You get to meet these families that are struggling with the life of their child. A lot of unsaid stuff goes on. Sometimes, you're just looking for one more day. Some kids are just happy to make it to kindergarten. Some make it further, graduating from high school.

God bless you for doing that work. I have two little kids and the thought of either of them having to deal with that makes me physically ill. I've always wanted to get on the bone marrow donors registry and I never have followed through. Maybe that's what I'll do for Christmas this year......

[yetidave]

Update; I just joined the marrow donors registry. I'll get my tissue typing kit in 2-3 weeks. :up: Thanks for the unintended reminder Dave.

[panthercity]

I would.
Butt, for you, that's just a promotion from High Priest to HMFIC...

[HPPT]

Butt, for you, that's just a promotion from High Priest to HMFIC...

HMFIC is Mongo on the BBS.

[Orvis]

Are you certain about this? Don't some Christian groups have a decree that all
are saved when they accept Jesus into their lives?

Can we now sell "indulgence slips" like in the old days, that would kinda make
the journey less painful for some folks?

Errr...just wanted to know, how hard is Purgatory, like BUDS/SEAL training or
more like just waiting with nothing to do?

And while I'm at it, how 'long' is Eternity? Everyting has its limits, and it is
high time someone gets this straight. How long and how do you know?

These are all good thoughts. Who's to say that our existence here on earth isn't heaven, or hell, or purgatory. About all that we can do is try to live by the 10 commandments and do the best that we can and still have a fun life.
I did hear a good explanation of eternity.
God has built a 10,000 foot tall stone tower that measures 10 feet by 10 feet square. Every thousand years a sparrow flies by it and tips it with his wing. When the tower is worn to the ground, eternity has just begun. :up:

[Cuddles de Sade]

HMFIC is Mongo on the BBS.

he wasn't talking about the BBS...:up:

[RCjohn]

A bit of oversimplification, but reasonably accurate. Faith does not eliminate fear entirely but I've seen enough people of faith die without fear that I'm comfortable with your summary. That still does not make it easy to let go of family and friends.


Kind of like I tell people when they realize my main hobby. I don't want to die but I'm not afraid of dying.

[charles]

These are all good thoughts. Who's to say that our existence here on earth isn't heaven, or hell, or purgatory. About all that we can do is try to live by the 10 commandments and do the best that we can and still have a fun life.
I did hear a good explanation of eternity.
God has built a 10,000 foot tall stone tower that measures 10 feet by 10 feet square. Every thousand years a sparrow flies by it and tips it with his wing. When the tower is worn to the ground, eternity has just begun. :up:

Orvis, I am being respectful of your beliefs when I tell you that, apparently, you have some sort of ability to believe things that, for the life of me, I simply could not do. Of course i am given to flights of fantasy, who isn't, but from the time i was a youth, I could not be brought to the table of total and unquestioning belief. Neither do I find 'scientific explanations' to be the be all and end all. I have a sense of the mystery of life, but that is what it is: a mystery, not a collection of beliefs asking me to accept what other men have said before me. So far, those belief systems have explained totally nothing for me. They may for others, but not for me; blind faith isn't in the cards for me...and i'm not uncomfortable with that.

[panthercity]

See, Charles, that's the problem. People who want their "beliefs" to explain the unexplainable and those who want "proof" of their "faith" will never find explanations, proof or a faith to believe in.

[HPPT]

Kind of like I tell people when they realize my main hobby. I don't want to die but I'm not afraid of dying.

The biggest fear I have about dying (besides "is it going to be painful?") is not knowing what happens next. But not in the way most people would think. It's not knowing what happens to the world, to people I know, etc. The fact that so many questions I have will not be answered. Will there ever be a black man in the White House? Will they save the mountain gorillas? Will they find a cure for AIDS? How low can Africa sink while the rest of the world improves their condition? Will something happen that will make Paris Hilton poor and homeless? Will God ever burned a talking bush in front of a guy with a video camera? Will my niece understand when I check out? Will Nicky Hayden win another race? Will John Hopkins win one? I could go on for days.

If I had any reason to believe that my consciousness will survive my physical death and be able to observe the world, I would have absolutely no regrets about dying.

[charles]

The biggest fear I have about dying (besides "is it going to be painful?") is not knowing what happens next. But not in the way most people would think. It's not knowing what happens to the world, to people I know, etc. The fact that so many questions I have will not be answered. Will there ever be a black man in the White House? Will they save the mountain gorillas? Will they find a cure for AIDS? How low can Africa sink while the rest of the world improves their condition? Will something happen that will make Paris Hilton poor and homeless? Will God ever burned a talking bush in front of a guy with a video camera? Will my niece understand when I check out? Will Nicky Hayden win another race? Will John Hopkins win one? I could go on for days.

If I had any reason to believe that my consciousness will survive my physical death and be able to observe the world, I would have absolutely no regrets about dying.

Before you go, please appoint me in permanent charge of all existing and future Priestesses. Each night (after your untimely passing), I will tell you what happens provided you give me some sign you are there.

[HPPT]

Before you go, please appoint me in permanent charge of all existing and future Priestesses. Each night (after your untimely passing), I will tell you what happens provided you give me some sign you are there.

You might have to fight Buckwild for that right. And Secularist.

[gpstar748]

I think a few people hit it square on the head.

I fear being maimed more than death. I dont really fear death, I dont believe people should fear the unknown. Death is the BIG unknown. I fear dieing living an unhappy life.

I was millimeters from death doing something people do everyday, driving home after work. Do I want to lead a simple life of going to work and coming home everyday and not do anything I love anymore for fear of death???

To answer bigjoker247.......my neck is getting better, I have been out of my brace for 2 months now and I feel a ton better..........one of the reasons I started this thread is my current doctor says I should never ride/race, snowboard/ski, take martial arts, or go surfing (even get in the ocean) ever again.

I have talked to other people who have broken their necks who have been told different things. The thing with my injury is that if I were to reinjure it at the level its at (C1, the first vertebrae from the base of the skull) then its almost certain death if it touches the spinal cord. Anything that high up stops your breathing and other vital life support processes.

However I dont wanna be driving down the road one day and get t-boned by a car in an intersection or rear ended by someone and have my life changed forever or cut short, Id rather have it be doing something I love.

Everyone dies but not everyone dies happy.

[RCjohn]

If I had any reason to believe that my consciousness will survive my physical death and be able to observe the world, I would have absolutely no regrets about dying.

Maybe something will help you believe that last part. :)

[Cuddles de Sade]

You might have to fight Buckwild for that right. And Secularist.

I got Buck's back...I'm not messing with the Chain of Command:bow:

[charles]

I got Buck's back...I'm not messing with the Chain of Command:bow:

I'm in no hurry to mess with Buck, best is to wait him out...:)

[Tortuga]

HPPT - here you go; Yes but not Barak, NO, Yes but nobody will be able to afford it, 50yrs 3mons 2 days (approx), God we hope so, already did but the tape was confiscated by the CIA and the guy "disappeared", No, No, Yes
Please feel free to stick around a while longer though.

[Rally 291]

I don't fear death at all. In my mind, I'm already gone and living on bonus time. I try to make the most of what I have left and be positive.

On a religious basis, I guess I fall into the 'Agnostic' category, so it is not a matter, or question, of faith for me. I don't have any specific beliefs or questions regarding 'the afterlife'. I guess I'll find out who was right when I get there.

I've told my wife that I'll continue to 'count UP' and that I *WILL NOT* count
down. It will just happen one day that I stop counting. At that point, I don't want friends and relatives to be sad, I'd like them to celebrate the good memories and smile.

In my book, there is a difference between living and existing. For me, when it comes down to just existing, its time to see what's next.

I don't believe in running up astronomical medical bills just to prolong life. For me, when I'm incapable of doing things that are fun, the party is over. DO NOT put me on life support and Do Not Rescusitate.

I'd just like to say it was fun while I was here..... :beer:

[GAMBLER]

your life is a microscopic sliver of light between two infinite darknessessessess - hug your kids, squeeze the ol lady, what the hell, do a load of laundry once a quarter

[Jugglenutz]

It's not being dead that's the hard part. It's the pain/agony of getting to the dead part that I'm afraid of.

[In Your Corner]

I didn't read all of this thread, but here goes.........
I don't believe in God or an afterlife.
I believe that when we die, we just cease to exist.
If my belief is wrong, God should forgive me for merely doubting.
If I'm right, dying won't hurt, because I will merely cease to exist, which will be painless.
Either way, death is inevitable. I don't fear it.
I've been too close to it several times.

[charles]

I didn't read all of this thread, but here goes.........
I don't believe in God or an afterlife.
I believe that when we die, we just cease to exist.
If my belief is wrong, God should forgive me for merely doubting.
If I'm right, dying won't hurt, because I will merely cease to exist, which will be painless.
Either way, death is inevitable. I don't fear it.
I've been too close to it several times.

How close was it?

[R Acree]

How close was it?

2'-7 3/8"