Elite Sportbike Trackday @ Little Tally

[MotorSWATCop]

I rode Elite Sportbike's Trackday at Tally yesterday. I was lucky enough to win a free day from them. It was my first time to ride any track other than Barber; and my second time on the track w/ my GSXR750. Everything prior was on my FJR1300. I just wanted to post my observations. I'm sure that other, more experienced, folks will add their thoughts.

The weather was awesome and they had the gates open early. They advertised that there would be no more than 25 on the track at a time and they held to it. They stayed pretty much on schedule throughout the day w/ one glitch just before lunch. They did make good to the novice group so that they did not lose a session. Sessions were 20 minutes and I got 7 in the intermediate group.

They had the corners manned and an ambulanceon scene.Yesterday, the ambulance never rolled. I think 2 bikes went down but nothing serious. The control riders were helpful. Some of the novices said that the instruction they were getting was good and helpful.

If I had a complaint, I would have to say it was tech. They did not require us to bring our gear to tech; only the bike. One kid, who was pitted next to me, was allowed to track a ZX6 that had a street tire on the rear w/ wear markers obviously showing. He was in novice but this did not teach him anything about what's safe for the track. Oh ,and Elite Sportbike needs to get a beacon for lap timers. Luckily, some one had one.

All in all I'll go back to one of their events. I enjoyed myself andreally liked the track. Best time was a 1:10 but ran mostly 1:12's. I also learned that street tires go away quickly on the track. It was my second day on this set of Diablo's and they (rear) started to slip badly in the last sessions so I ran a gear up to limit torque.

That's it.

[Tinfoil hat charly]

We were there [Max and Jesse in advanced, me in novice] novice instruction and instructors were terrific, I learned things or at least remembered them this time and I got faster- at least relatively-no lap timers: I told my boys to call me in if they saw me dragging a knee--luckily that was not necessary.

[Tdub]

We had originally planned on both days at Tally, but a last minute "thing" at home cut us down to one day. Got to thank Robert for working with us on that situation.
The boys had a great time and alot of fun. The day went perfect until 2 laps from the end of the last session Hayden broke a chain. Nick dropped another 2.5 seconds off his previous best getting a 1:04 flat. Garrett really came on strong after he hooked up with Hayden and Nick and dropped like 6 seconds in 1 session. RedBull Rookies Hayden Gillim and Kris Turner were in attendance. Sure wish we caould have stayed another day!!!
Just wanted to say thanks to all the Advanced riders for putting up with the little GP bikes on the track. I can sense some frustration out there having to deal with the different speeds and lines they take...again thanks. I only saw 2 riders who let their frustration get the better of them and but all in all I think the day went well.
So Kudos to Robert and Elite:up: :beer: Tdub

[vito2279]

No shit?? so thats who those fast "little shits" were :) Kris and Hayden were FLYING!

[Tdub]

No shit?? so thats who those fast "little shits" were :) Kris and Hayden were FLYING!

Kris was there as a spectator and is riding today(Sunday). The 2 "little shits" on Saturday were 12 yr old Hayden and 10 yr old Nick McFadden. Tdub

[automan]

It was neat following the little guys around Tally and watching their corner entry. They really keep good momentum on those bikes. 80cc's? I passed one of them at the end of the back stretch on the inside, and was worried if he would run it back in as we entered the corner. Very impressive!

[fjrfencer]

I was there on Sat. Had a good time in the Novice group. Good instruction by those there. This was my first time at Tally with a new bike (to me) my only other track was once at Barbers on my FJR. by the end of the day I hit 1:15 and I'll take it:up:

The course was in good shape, not overcrowded, and well managed.

My one complaint, If I had one, would be it was posted spectators were free.

But my wife and pop were hit for admission ($5 ea) when they arrived around lunch time

I would attend another with Elite:clap:

[vito2279]

I only wish that I had a couple of sons to do this with after riding with Hayden and Nick this weekend.

[Tdub]

Just got a call from the track...another great day was had by all!!! Damn, I wish we could have stayed. Tdub

[MotorSWATCop]

My one complaint, If I had one, would be it was posted spectators were free.
But my wife and pop were hit for admission ($5 ea) when they arrived around lunch time

:clap:

That was a track charge. Some organizations charge admission in addition to the track charge. Thrifty...........:Poke:

[fjrfencer]

That was a track charge. Some organizations charge admission in addition to the track charge. Thrifty...........:Poke:

I know, but the web said FREE Admission :moon:

It was Dad's money so it didn't come out of my thrifty pocket

[(diet)DrThunder]

If I ever let my 10 year old kid ride in a track day with adults, be it in advanced, intermediate, or novice, please call CPS immediately...he'll thank you for it when he's old enough to understand things like consequences.

Thanks.

[Gerloff310]

I take offense to that comment since I have 10 yr. old and 12 yr. old that rode yesterday. What exactly do you mean by that statement? These kids are experienced riders that have exceptional talent levels. All the adults seems to enjoy getting their "ass" handed to them by a 10 yr. old on the track. At every track day we attend, we always have people coming up and talking to the boys and say how great it is to ride with them. I had one guy tell me it is demoralizing, but he laughed it off.

Confused??

[Tdub]

I too am confused what prompted this comment. My 10 yr old rider has attended 6 racer schools this year, many track days, and has logged over 2500 miles on track this year. He starts out in a slower group and like this weekend, was immediately bumped up to advanced by the people in charge. This is the first "negative" comment that I have heard. In fact I have heard nothing but positive remarks until this one. Did something happen on track? Or did they just not let you play football with them between sessions? Or am I just misreading something? Tdub

[Gerloff310]

Good point Tryce. The kids have to take a rider school or work with an instructor and hold a racing license like anybody else. Before my 12 yr. old moved up to the 125cc and get his novice license, he had to be observed by Ed Bargy for approval. Most of these kids start racing in other disciplines at 4 yrs. old and move over to road racing at 10 (8 yrs. old with special exemption) because that is the rule. Most of these kids have more time on a motorcycle than the adults. I've seen more bonehead moves by adults than kids.

[(diet)DrThunder]

I take offense to that comment since I have 10 yr. old and 12 yr. old that rode yesterday. What exactly do you mean by that statement? These kids are experienced riders that have exceptional talent levels. All the adults seems to enjoy getting their "ass" handed to them by a 10 yr. old on the track. At every track day we attend, we always have people coming up and talking to the boys and say how great it is to ride with them. I had one guy tell me it is demoralizing, but he laughed it off.

Confused??

What I mean exactly, is that in my opinion, it is reckless endangerment to put a 10 year old child on the track with adults on bigger, heavier bikes who have the ability to assess risk v. consequence that a 10 year old child does not. It has nothing to do with how fast the kid can go. He's 10..he can't make an informed decision to take on the risk of that activity on his own, and he's on the track with people who can. That disparity is dangerous in my opinion.

Is that clearer?

Look, I'm not trying to personally insult you, I just have strong feelings on the matter. Obviously you disagree, or your kids wouldn't be out there. Aside from my statement above, it's also my opinion that an adult has a reasonable expectation that any participant at the track day has assumed the risks inherent to the activity, and as such, bears some responsibility if any mishaps occur. Has a 10 year old boy really considered the risks, and come to a conscious decision to share this responsibility? A child does not have the ability to assess risk/reward/consequence that an adult does. This is ok if there are only 10 year olds on track, but when there are adults present, I think that this disparity is bad news.

[Tinfoil hat charly]

I just have to agree with Dave; I wouldn't let my boys near a race track until they were 16. AHMRA won't even allow riders under the age of 18. The one possible mitigating factor in WERA's favor is that at least they are limited to 80cc.

[(diet)DrThunder]

Good point Tryce. The kids have to take a rider school or work with an instructor and hold a racing license like anybody else. Before my 12 yr. old moved up to the 125cc and get his novice license, he had to be observed by Ed Bargy for approval. Most of these kids start racing in other disciplines at 4 yrs. old and move over to road racing at 10 (8 yrs. old with special exemption) because that is the rule. Most of these kids have more time on a motorcycle than the adults. I've seen more bonehead moves by adults than kids.

I agree with everything you said here. None of that makes such a young child properly equipped to make the same decisions that an adult makes re: the risks inherent in the activity. In no way am I commenting on the kids' ability to ride a motorcycle. I just think that it's inappropriate for such young children to be on-track with adults in this manner.

Like I said before, I have strong feelings about this. Obviously you disagree, or your kids wouldn't be out there. For me, if my son ever wants to race, he will only do so with other kids (with the possible exception of the mini race type of thing that WERA does, due to the relaxed approach the adults have in teh mini races), until I believe that he is mature enough to assess the risks involved, and take responsibility for them. I just don't think that a 10 year old can do that.

[Cliff0529]

Dave, I can see Charly's point about not letting them out there b/c of the reasons you pointed out. But for the life of me can't follow you're reasoning. You're saying that they shouldn't be out there with adults, who (let's be realistic here) are going to give the kids more room than they would another adult. But you have no problem sticking them out there with 8-10 other kids, who in your own words are incapable of weighing the consequences of a "bonzai" pass.

If you feel so strongly, and I am truly not judging you for this, then perhaps you shouldn't let him race at all until you feel he can adequately weigh risk vs reward and is cognisant of the fact that his actions can and will affect others, similar to what Charly has said. Ultimately, its your call, just like it is Mr. AND Mrs. McFadden's call. I just see a little bit of a double standard in the thought process. IMHO, I think they'd be safer with the adults...I mean, would you really want to be "that guy" that punted a kid off the track?

Also, I think the CPS thing was a bit over the top. :) Just because you are not comfortable with that decision does not make it "endangerment."

[STT-GUY]

A big factor is insurance.

Did you execute proper minor waivers? Even if you did as a track day providor, I'm not willing to risk everything I have on a sympethetic jury (and what jury wouldn't be looking at little Johnny missing an arm/leg or sitting there in a wheelchair) deciding that the waivers were not enough... it happens.

We go with whatever the venue prefers or 15 w/a race license or 16 without

Sanctioned racing events are different than recreational events.

[Gerloff310]

We will agree to disagree. To your point, does a 16 yr. old understand this risk vs. reward vs. consequence scenerio. For that matter, does a 20 yr. old?? Your kids will ride with you in a car....do they understand the consequences of an automobile crash?? I don't think anybody really understands anything until they have a crash. Then it hits home. Most people really enjoy riding a motorcyce until they crash. Then some people will sell everything and never throw a leg over a bike again and others will get back on. I spend half my time lecturing my boys on the consequences of riding a motorcycle and believe me they understand. Both of them have hit the ground hard and still can't wait to get back on a bike. They have got to see first hand what I have been through (17 broken bones and 2 surgeries) and still want to ride. We talk about different situations and how to react to those situations when riding with other bikes, whether it is another 80cc or a 600cc. A tragedy can happen in either situation.

I've had this same discussion with people when we were racing motocross. How can you let your kids get out there with all those big bikes?? Don't you know it's dangerous!! We could list a thousand things that kids do that they don't understand or have the capacity to understand what could happen to them......that is just life.

I've noticed over the years two kinds of parents. Those that will let their kids ride motorcycles and those that won't. I feel neither one is wrong. I respect your decision with your children......please respect mine.

[(diet)DrThunder]

Hey there Cliff

There's no double standard here at all, but I understand what led you to say that. I don't think that _anything_ about a 10 year old kid riding a 125 GP bike is appropriate, but in this thread we were just talking about participation at a track day w/ adults is all.

I wouldn't have my 10 year old riding something as fast as a 125, or even the faster Metrakit type bikes...so yes, I'm comfortable with a field of kids riding minis. So, to fully convey what I was getting at...a grid of kids on minis is completely fine with me. A 10 year old on a 125GP bike on the track with adults on GSXR1000's (for example) is not.

[STT-GUY]

[QUOTE=Cliff0529;1816833]I mean, would you really want to be "that guy" that punted a kid off the track?[QUOTE]

No I sure don't and you can bet 100% I would do whatever it took to avoid that at all cost. So what would happen is that I (or most other riders) would choose to wad myself up possibly taking someone else out/hurting myself or worse.

This is another reason we don't feel it is safe to mix elementry school age riders with adults in a recreational track riding setting.

It is unfortunate because the kids don't really have an alternative avenue for riding. It's not like MX where there are lots of choices.

[zerosense]

I read Dave's first post this morning and did not reply because I wanted to take some time to think about my response. I was at Tally this weekend, corner worked on Sat, rode on Sun. I spoke with some of the kids during the weekend, and some of the parents. The riding abilities of those guys is amazing to say the least. They obviously have had some great training and know their way around the track. However, as a mother, I did have mixed feelings. Whether I would have allowed my son to participate in such a dangerous sport when he was that young is doubtful. I would love to see him join me at trackdays now, but even though he is 17, I don't know if I could ever forgive myself if he got hurt - or worse. It still scares me to think of him driving down the highway by himself in a car. But situations are different, people are different, and I will bet you those kids have had some serious conversations with their parents about what can happen to them. Whether they truely understand what that means is anybody's guess. I do commend the staff of Elite Sportbike. On Sunday they put the smaller bikes on the track first and held everyone else until they were entering the bowl. It allowed them to be in a group of their own (cause there was no way any of us could catch them!) and they had plenty of open track in which to practice their skills. I think it worked out well.

Elite Sportbike did a great job with the track day, and I will do more track days with them. Good job Robert and Linda!

[(diet)DrThunder]

We will agree to disagree. To your point, does a 16 yr. old understand this risk vs. reward vs. consequence scenerio. For that matter, does a 20 yr. old?? Your kids will ride with you in a car....do they understand the consequences of an automobile crash??

Do you honestly believe that this is a valid analogy? If so, then I guess our conversation is over.


I've had this same discussion with people when we were racing motocross. How can you let your kids get out there with all those big bikes?? Don't you know it's dangerous!! We could list a thousand things that kids do that they don't understand or have the capacity to understand what could happen to them......that is just life.

If your kids raced motocross on the track at the same time as older teens and adults on bigger bikes, then I agree with those people you're referring to.

I've noticed over the years two kinds of parents. Those that will let their kids ride motorcycles and those that won't. I feel neither one is wrong. I respect your decision with your children......please respect mine.

My kids will ride bikes if they want to, and I agree with you that I understand why some parents believe that it's bad for kids to ride any bike at all. Parents who are scared to death of bikes in general would say that I am recklessly endangering my kids' welfare by letting them ride, and it is their right to believe that. I believe that you are recklessly endangering the welfare of your kids by allowing them to ride in the situations we've been discussing, and it is my right to believe that as well.

I do respect your right to make such decisions for your children, but I do not respect your decision, I'm sorry. Like I said, I have nothing at all against you or the other parents who posted in the thread. I truly hope with all of my heart and more that this conversation remains purely hypothetical, and none of us is ever faced with the alternative.

Going back to my first post, I do apologize for the snide way I expressed my opinion. This is a serious topic to me, and I should not have posted in that manner. I don't doubt that you love your kids, and I'm sure that you believe that you're acting in their best interests.

[(diet)DrThunder]

To your point, does a 16 yr. old understand this risk vs. reward vs. consequence scenerio. For that matter, does a 20 yr. old??

Sorry, I forgot about this part...

Yes, I absolutely believe that a 16 year old can be capable of understanding risk v. consequence. Are they going to have the same perspective as a 35 year old? Of course not, but to compare a 16 year old or a 20 year old's ability to understand theses issues to a 10 year old seems a little over-the-top to me.

An 18 year old (right between the 16 and 20 you mentioned) can join the military. Do you think that you could educate your 10 year old son to where he could make an informed and reasoned decision to do the same? Of course not, nobody would suggest such a thing. I am aware that this is a stretch, but I'm only trying to illustrate my perspective on this...obviously not trying to say that racing a motorcycle = joining the military.

[Photo_Chick]

Ya know, I had never really thought about the kids being on bikes until the kid at Barber crashed and passed away. He was what, 14? And I kept thinking of the nightmares his parents must be facing, the what if's they must be thinking... what if we had told him no or at least waited until he was older. Because after that, frankly I don't believe that a child is old enough to truely understand the consequences. And there can be some really bad consequences. That's why parents make decisions for their children until they are 18. No matter how well a child rides, he's still a child and looks to his parents for guidance. The child trusts the parent is making the right decision for him/her. And from another aspect, what if an adult had accidentally taken him out and something really bad happened. I don't think I could live with the fact that I caused something like that to a kid. And as a parent, being around the track for many years and seeing what can happen, all by accident, no, I wouldn't let mine ride until they turned 18.

[Photo_Chick]

And everytime Jake is on the track I'm a nervous wreck!

[Dunham]

Hello,

My name is Tony Dunham and my two kids were on the track on Sunday with the Gerloffs. What point you people are missing is this sport is DANGEROUS!!!! reguardless of the speed or the people on the track. Do you not think we as parents don't know this??

But how many kids die each year playing rec sports, riding horses, hell just playing in the neighborhood. The point is we know the risk. Our kids know the risk, we just do everything possible for their safety.(Schools, pro-instruction, TRACK TIME)

I have thought about it many times, woindering what is going on in their heads as they are out there. Then, just after that, I see Hunter get a great drive out of the 90"s and run it all the way up to Grayson's front fender going into the carousel BUT backs off because Grayson's entrance speed and line would cut him off and they would crash. These little kids DO have the RESPECT and the ABILITY to make the decisions you speek of. You are not giving them the credit they deserve.

Although I would love to see just kids on the track in pracitce, we just do not have the resources availible for them. So we are GREATFUL!!!! to the organizations like Wera, Ed-Bargy, and Elite-sportbike who see the need for getting the young-guns the track time they deserve.

The sports athletes these days are younger and younger and the teams and sponsors money goes a lot farther on the young. Tiger a pro at 13?? NASCAR drivers 16?? Josh Herrin signed with Graves Yamaha at the age of 15before he could legally ride in the AMA. My point is if as a parent you want to support your kids in the sports they love you have to start young!!!!!!

The unfortunate END to Life is Death!!!! As Mark said earlier there is danger in everything we do. I hope that my children would never get hurt or die from the sport, however if they did, at least they were doing what they LOVE!!!

Regards

[(diet)DrThunder]

Hi Tony;

I'm not missing the point that it's dangerous...that _is_ my point. {edit} well, it's central to my point...

Aside from that, in this thread I was specifically addressing the idea of young kids on the track at the same time as adults on big bikes...kinda got off on a tangent about kids and the various sized bikes they ride, etc.

I am certain that all of you folks with kids on the track this weekend would echo Tony's sentiment there, but I doubt that we'd be hearing "hey, that's just how it is sometimes...this is a dangerous activity" if an adult made a mistake on a GSXR1000 and center-punched a 10 year old on a 125 at 140 or so...I just can't see that.

[bassguytom]

I rode Int class Saturday at Tally and really wasn't bothered one way or the other. I must have been 180-degrees around the track from the kids because I only saw them gridded up for Pit Out and maybe one passed me all day. If they happen to be close to me, I'm just going to give them enough room to "do their thing", but that's the same courtesy that I would give adults. Sure I might be a little more cautious if they're in the vicinity, but it's just a track day for god's sake. It's NOT a race. I didn't see but one incident that I thought was even marginal (inside pass in Int class) but there were several of those throughout the day, and mostly didn't involve the kids.

Let me give a different perspective on the whole kid/adult thing. I took TaeKwonDo for several years (long enough to get my Black Belt and was training for my 2nd Degree). As the kids reached a certain size, they were moved up to the adult class. My son, who is now 21, reach that size limit at age 12, as a red belt (just before black). He got moved up to the adult class. He knew the techniques and was probably quicker at sparring than most of the adults. But, there was no way he had the judgement of the adults. So, if he, as a 'kid' got a little out of control, the adults just continued to be adults and used good judgement and didn't clean his clock like they could have. In amazingly short order, all of the kids learned to use good judgement because they saw the adults practice it.

My message is, be a courteous rider regardless of the circumstances. The kids will only be kids for a very short time and then we'll be watching them on the MotoGP circuit or something.

So, each parent here is taking responsibility for their kids. Some like the idea of kids riding with adults at a young age. Some don't. You be responsible for your own kid. Do you really, really believe that you will persuade someone else that they are wrong about something as important as this by posting on a forum? Nah. Not gonna happen.

At any rate, what I want to know is... DID ANYBODY TAKE ANY PICS? I'm doing a presentation to a bunch of non-riders next week and would really like to show show recent pics. Thanks.

[Dunham]

As far as pics, go to http://www.blokessportbike.com/, they are in the process of posting pics from yesterday.

[Gerloff310]

Dr Thunder, I do not have nor will I ever have any hard feelings against you. Heck, your products warm my kids tires before they ride. My analogy was from the point of view that our kids are subject to many hazardous situations every day without their consent or comprehension. Joining the military....I can't go into whether a 10 yr. old has the capacity to kill another individual on a tactical mission. I can tell you my children watched as a teenager basically died in my arms from a motocycle crash at a motorcycle track. We were at Barber when Conner died. They know what the outcome can be!!!!
We can go back and forth on this issue all day. From every point of view there will be an argument from the other side.

Whether a 10, 20, or 40 yr. old gets killed at a track day, 9 times out of 10, you are going to get sued for some kind of negligence......that is another fact of the motorcycle world. If you think you are protected by not letting a kid ride, you are only kidding yourself. A skilled attorney can eat you for lunch. Look around at all the tracks and racing organizations that have been shut down over the years because of law suits. That's like saying, I own a bar but no one gets drunk here!!!! I'm not trying to be a smart guy, but that is the truth.

I am not under the allusion that I can protect my kids from anything....that is in God's hands (Yes, I believe in that stuff) At least I know my kids are with me every weekend spending quality time with me and my wife where we can instill our morals and ingetrity on them. How many parents get to do that?? We talk and share on a lot more levels than just motorcycling.

I was raised in a motocycle racing family. Yes, my mom and my dad raced. I raced at 10 yrs. old....I broke my 1st bone at that age. I knew what the consequeces were and I chose to keep on riding/racing. I personally have done it and had the capacity to deal with it at that age. My wife didn't come from a family that supported motorcycling, but she sees how much it means to my kids to get to ride and how much enjoyment they get out of it.

I have had a passion for motorcycles since I can remember and I am thankful my parents let me pursue my passion. I will not stand in the way of my kids pursuing theirs. I don't force them to ride and if they decide to never touch a motorcycle again, I will support that as well.

[(diet)DrThunder]

Dr Thunder, I do not have nor will I ever have any hard feelings against you.



Hey, nor do I of course. This is one of those topics for me that, because I personally feel strongly about it, I feel like it would be weakness on my part not to say my piece.

I think of it like this: I'm not a Christian, but unlike many people, I am not bothered at all when Christians are witnessing to me (not sure if that's the right terminology). I understand it completely. If you honestly believe that I will spend eternity in hell if I am not saved my Jesus, I would certainly hope you'd try to save me! :)

Seriously...that's just having the courage of your convictions. I'm not a nutjob, and I'm not going to steal your spark plugs at the track, but if somebody wants to talk about the subject, I'll say what I think about it, because that's how I am. I certainly hope you know that I wish you and yours nothing but success and good fortune on the track (and off of it).

[Tinfoil hat charly]

Dave, since you sort of introduced Christianity into this: The Christian perspective is that you are immortal until the exact moment God picks to take you...BUT we are not supposed "to tempt the Lord thy God" [Matthew 4,v7]

[Gerloff310]

I won't hold my beliefs against you either, but you should come to church with us this weekend.........I think we are getting out the snakes.....just kidding. I was really just kidding. No hate mail please.

I don't have the energy for the Christian / Non-Christian debate, but you guys have fun with it.

By the way, Jesus rode at 10 yrs. old with the big bikes!!! Gotcha

[STT-GUY]

Papa.... Just for the record I had NOTHING to do with it this time!

[MotorSWATCop]

I only wanted to say I enjoyed the day and let you know that Elite ran a pretty good track day. I guess I opened a can of worms...

[turner38]

Dave,

In my opinion it is our job as parents to protect our Kids and keep them REASONAbly safe, you never know when bad things will happen it may be driving home from the day care, Climbing a tree in the yard, playing ball or just wrestling around with their friends but unfortunatly kids DIE every day from these things.
Kris has had a passion for motorcycles since the day we picked him up from CPS, the only toys he wanted to play with were motorcycles, His first ride toy was a little push three wheeler that he would coast down the hill into the Racecar shop and slidesideways on the polished floorat age 18 months, for his second birthday he got his first bicycle 6 months later he was riding it without training wheels(with a helmet). At age three Rex Richey bought him a LT50 Suzuki It took him all of 5 minutes to master riding it, I quit Driving cars when he was six because HE wanted to start racing full time( he had raced occasionaly up until then) by the time he was 8 he was riding the Exrert practice at the local MX because it was SAFER for him( he was Jumping EVERYTHING on the track with his KX65). We have always tried to keep Kris In a reasonably safe enviroment, the thing is You can never plan when Bad things are going to happen, there have been times when I have been kneeling besides Kris asking God to please let him wake up after he crashed for no apparent reason while practicing, its a scary feeling and I cannot imagine how I would have gone on if he hadn't awakened, but if he hadn't it would be no different than him getting killed in a car wreck or falling out of a tree and dying. I allow him to ride because I love him and see the joy that it brings him, the gracefullness that he exhibits while riding is wonderfull for me to watch and I enjoy it more than I ever did Riding(it seems as though I'm not the only one that enjoys watching Kris ride though).

Having been around Kids and motorcycles for many years there is no way you can convince me that older riders make better decisions, I beleive the oposite is true A ten year old will tend to make better decisions for his safety than a 13-18 year old will. I beleive that it is better for the riders to have developed past a certain point before the testosterone hits than to try to learn while it is comprimising their judgement.

I would rather my son be with me doing what he loves than running around with the masses with nothing to invest himself into.

Just my 2 cents,

Danny Turner

[Dutch]

Good, healthy discourse by all those involved but let's keep our religeous beliefs out of this. I'd hate to have to shut it down because it winds up heading down the path of the Dungeon ;)

[(diet)DrThunder]

Dave,

In my opinion it is our job as parents to protect our Kids and keep them REASONAbly safe, you never know when bad things will happen it may be driving home from the day care, Climbing a tree in the yard, playing ball or just wrestling around with their friends but unfortunatly kids DIE every day from these things.

...but none of these things are anywhere near the inherent danger of riding a 125 at 10 years old on the track at the same time as experts on GSXR1000's. That's what I'm talking about here...not just kids riding motorcycles.

Kris has had a passion for motorcycles since the day we picked him up from CPS, the only toys he wanted to play with were motorcycles, His first ride toy was a little push three wheeler that he would coast down the hill into the Racecar shop and slidesideways on the polished floorat age 18 months, for his second birthday he got his first bicycle 6 months later he was riding it without training wheels(with a helmet). At age three Rex Richey bought him a LT50 Suzuki It took him all of 5 minutes to master riding it, I quit Driving cars when he was six because HE wanted to start racing full time( he had raced occasionaly up until then) by the time he was 8 he was riding the Exrert practice at the local MX because it was SAFER for him( he was Jumping EVERYTHING on the track with his KX65). We have always tried to keep Kris In a reasonably safe enviroment, the thing is You can never plan when Bad things are going to happen, there have been times when I have been kneeling besides Kris asking God to please let him wake up after he crashed for no apparent reason while practicing, its a scary feeling and I cannot imagine how I would have gone on if he hadn't awakened, but if he hadn't it would be no different than him getting killed in a car wreck or falling out of a tree and dying. I allow him to ride because I love him and see the joy that it brings him, the gracefullness that he exhibits while riding is wonderfull for me to watch and I enjoy it more than I ever did Riding(it seems as though I'm not the only one that enjoys watching Kris ride though).

I understand completely, but again, the "you could get hurt in the bathtub" argument does not apply...we're not talking about midlife crisis people realizing a fantasy here, we're talking about 10 year old kids on the track along with 175hp bikes that weigh 400 pounds. Once again, I'm all about kids riding bikes...with other kids, and on appropriate machinery, in an appropriate environment. That's it. I have never suggested that Kris, or Nick, or anyone else not ride at all.

Having been around Kids and motorcycles for many years there is no way you can convince me that older riders make better decisions, I beleive the oposite is true A ten year old will tend to make better decisions for his safety than a 13-18 year old will. I beleive that it is better for the riders to have developed past a certain point before the testosterone hits than to try to learn while it is comprimising their judgement.

Again, not my point at all. As I've said, I'm not talking about on-track decision making or riding talent. I'm talking about a 10 year old not being equipped to make a reasoned decision to get on a track on a 125 with the GSXR1000 mounted experts, or not to.

I would rather my son be with me doing what he loves than running around with the masses with nothing to invest himself into.

Just my 2 cents,

Danny Turner

I absolutely agree with you, and I'll be doing the same with my son (if that's what he likes). But you won't see him at 10 on a bike that can go 135mph, riding with experts on 175hp bikes...that's all I'm saying here.

I'm not trying to fight with you folks. I know you all love your kids very much...I see it every weekend at the track. Let me turn this around and look at another totally separate aspect of this. We've all seen that funny picture of me behind Nick on his 125 at Tally.

That bike I'm on in the picture weighs about 400 pounds, and I weigh about 300 pounds. If I had made a mistake and hit him, I would have definitely knocked him down, and maybe run him over. I consider myself a very safe rider, but people make mistakes...crashes happen. If I ever did that, I'd never sleep again.

I'll stop now...it's just that nobody ever talks about this, and it scares the hell out of me every time I see the young riders on the track along with adults on faster bikes at track days. I sincerely hope that everyone young and old enjoys a long, happy life doing whatever it is they love to do.

[(diet)DrThunder]

Good, healthy discourse by all those involved but let's keep our religeous beliefs out of this. I'd hate to have to shut it down because it winds up heading down the path of the Dungeon ;)

That was my mistake...I was ONLY trying to draw an analogy re; why I am arguing so strongly. Please let;s not go down that road at _all_. Thanks!

[fjrfencer]

My wife took some, most were blury. these are the better ones and, of course of me.

Novice group, Sat.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/klgacg/S6300041.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/klgacg/S6300047-1.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/klgacg/S6300039.jpg

It took me to the last lap to pass this R1, I tried to pass for 4 laps at least
Good run whoever you are.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/klgacg/S6300032.jpg

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f2/klgacg/S6300034.jpg

As far as the kids go...

can I buy some stock now??:up:

[ShelbyJohnson]

I'm anixous for my first trip to TGPR.

On the youth discussion... I present Ben Spies' bio.

Ben Spies – Ben started riding motorcycles at the age of five and racing with CMRA at the age of eight in 1993. In 1994, he won a YSR championship followed by an 80cc championship the following season. At age 12, he started riding 125 Grand Prix bikes, traveling to WERA races outside of Texas. At age 14, Ben started riding 600s, winning more championships. He signed with Suzuki at 15, riding for Valvoline Suzuki and Attack Suzuki before joining the Yoshimura Suzuki factory team and winning the 2003 AMA Formula Xtreme championship on a GSX-R1000.

[MarkClow]

I enjoyed the trackday, which I felt was very professionally organized and ran.

[(diet)DrThunder]

Hey Mark! Sorry I couldn't make it...woulda been fun to get to ride with you. Next time...

[jkhonea]

Papa.... Just for the record I had NOTHING to do with it this time!

:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

[freels22]

all this is kinda of crazy don't you think? we all get on our bikes knowing that at any giving second it can end. we all wake up in the mornings knowing that this could be the end. no matter how old you are or are not we are doing what we love, what we wake up for, and what we live for. not to take sides, but i have hung out with and rode with nick this year and let me tell you guys something, for 10yrs old the kid knows riding. he watches, listens, and learns every time at and on the track. he has done it for many years and loves it. i believe he knows what could happen. think about this, ethan gillim, same age as nick, past away this year, sad yes! couldn't dream of whats it's like to go through that as a parent or in nicks case his best friend. thats what these boys love and live for so do you to take it all away because of age? no way! these boys get back on their bikes and go for it and even more so they can dedicate it to those they love and miss, knowing that each of them would do anything to ride. should we tell these tons of talented kids that they shouldn't ride because of their age when they are out riding most adults. where is the future of the sport? the kids! i'm not siding here but just think we should trust these kids just as we trust our fellow adult riders. no one says anything about an adult on a mini???

[stickboy274]

Good, healthy discourse by all those involved but let's keep our religeous beliefs out of this. I'd hate to have to shut it down because it winds up heading down the path of the Dungeon ;)


Lutherins, how did they come to be? I mean, I think Luther Vandross has some good songs, but does he really need his own religion?

[Kris87]

i'm 100% for the kids being on the track, but in their own class against other kids and similar bikes.

i havent had to be on the track yet riding with 10 year old kids on mini-bikes. if i were, i wouldnt feel comfortable. i'm with dave, it all sounds good until some 40 something center punches one on a big bike and seriously hurts one. then i'd bet some feelings would change. i can't imagine how i'd feel if i hurt a young one.

[Gerloff310]

I think what we are confusing here is a "track day for fun" and a "full on race practice". I would never stick my kid out there on an 80cc bike if it was a "expert only, wheel to wheel, no holds barred, take no prisoners, 600cc or 1000cc race practice" He would be in the way.....that is obvious!!! But, if we go to a track day and he is riding at the same speed or faster of the other bikes, I have no problem with him riding.

I hope that clears up my position on this matter.

[Kris87]

i guess that's where the ambiguity lies. i dont do trackdays for fun. i really dont do them at all, but when i do, i do them for testing. i ride at 100% (just like i do in every practice), otherwise, i'm not learning anything i didnt already know before i got there.

[SmokeSignalRT]

Sounds like that line from Rudy "Look man it I dont give it 100% im not helping the team" or some shit :D





clubman sucks

[Gerloff310]

At the track days we've been to, the promoters are very good at if the advanced class is to fast, they will keep the kids in the intermediate group.

[MarkClow]

Hey Mark! Sorry I couldn't make it...woulda been fun to get to ride with you. Next time...


Hey Dave

How ya doing?

I would have been much too slow for you anyway! :)

Mark

[STT-GUY]

i guess that's where the ambiguity lies. i dont do trackdays for fun. i really dont do them at all, but when i do, i do them for testing. i ride at 100% (just like i do in every practice), otherwise, i'm not learning anything i didnt already know before i got there.

Many track day riders in the A group turn times faster that a majority of expert racer lap times... "Track Day" doesn't mean "slow" by any means.

[Tdub]

No it doesnt mean slow but there are no championships to be won so whats wrong with some common courtesy and accomodating to your fellow riders, no matter what age or ability? Tdub

[Tdub]

i guess that's where the ambiguity lies. i dont do trackdays for fun. i really dont do them at all, but when i do, i do them for testing. i ride at 100% (just like i do in every practice), otherwise, i'm not learning anything i didnt already know before i got there.

Well I guess if you are only running 1.5 seconds a lap faster than a 10 or 12yr old on a 125 you better practice as hard as you can. I bet if you ask them nice while they are throwing the football around between sessions, they might even have a tip or 2...:up:

[Gerloff310]

Well I guess if you are only running 1.5 seconds a lap faster than a 10 or 12yr old on a 125 you better practice as hard as you can. I bet if you ask them nice while they are throwing the football around between sessions, they might even have a tip or 2...:up:


Ouch! That will leave a mark. I know how you feel though.........I'm still reeling that my 12 yr. old had me by .7 at Barber the last time we were there. I have an excuse though!!!! :up:

[SmokeSignalRT]

Well I guess if you are only running 1.5 seconds a lap faster than a 10 or 12yr old on a 125 you better practice as hard as you can. I bet if you ask them nice while they are throwing the football around between sessions, they might even have a tip or 2...:up:



:wow:

[Kris87]

Well I guess if you are only running 1.5 seconds a lap faster than a 10 or 12yr old on a 125 you better practice as hard as you can. I bet if you ask them nice while they are throwing the football around between sessions, they might even have a tip or 2...:up:


:crackhead:

i dont know any 10 year olds on 125's doing 1:03's at talladega. your stopwatch must be broken.

but hey, its your kid. if you want him out there, go ahead.

[Tdub]

Kris I was messing with ya, just funnin. Tdub

[Kris87]

cool

[Gerloff310]

:crackhead:

i dont know any 10 year olds on 125's doing 1:03's at talladega. your stopwatch must be broken.

but hey, its your kid. if you want him out there, go ahead.

Not sure about the 1:03's, but my wife had him at a 1:04 on Saturday ;)

[vosnick52]

A couple of us were in the 58's , 59's on Saturday and there was no real issue with traffic or the "Kids". That was a well run track day and I had a blast riding again :up:

[Tdub]

i dont know any 10 year olds on 125's doing 1:03's at talladega. your stopwatch must be broken.



Today Nick ran a bunch of mid 1:03s with several laps in the :03.2s . Tomorrow the fresh rubber goes on and he hopes(his weekend goal) is to break into the .2s. I don't even think he got into anyone's way today! Tdub

[(diet)DrThunder]

You continue to miss the point...nobody cares if he is or is not in the way, or how fast he's going. It is natural for people to have varied skill levels and speeds at a track day (or even racing for that matter). If your son were 16 years old, I wouldn be happy to ride with him, I dont' care if he's doing 1:25's or 0:55's.

Completely aside from the whole endangerment issue that I already beat to death, if I make a mistake on the track and kill a 10 year old kid, I will never sleep again. I resent that you put me and everyone else in that position by putting a 10 year old kid on the track with adults. It simply is not the proper environment for a 10 year old to ride a motorcycle, I don't care if he's doing 0:55's out there.

I wasn't going to post again but every time I see one of these updates it pisses me off again...can't help it.

[twister216]

...and where is the proper environment? I don't think age has anything to do with it. It's more on the topic of experience and proper training. I had the privalege to ride with Garrett and Grayson back in the Oct. at TGPR. Both are able to hold their lines well. If they're able to turn .04-.05's what's the problem. I personally find it more safe on the track next them than on the highway next to a 16yr old in a hopped up Mustang.

[(diet)DrThunder]

EDIT: I give up...not a single post in this thread addresses the point of the issue. Good luck, and I sincerely hope your children aren't hurt or worse.

[cspencer123]

...and where is the proper environment? I don't think age has anything to do with it. It's more on the topic of experience and proper training. I had the privalege to ride with Garrett and Grayson back in the Oct. at TGPR. Both are able to hold their lines well. If they're able to turn .04-.05's what's the problem. I personally find it more safe on the track next them than on the highway next to a 16yr old in a hopped up Mustang.

I was there and got passed by the kids, no problem.

I think Dave is trying to say he wouldn't want to be responsible for hurting 1 of them if they went down and he couldn't avoid them. Me neither, but they have to ride somewhere. Its really easy to gap yourself from them and get on with it. Just slow up a little and let them go or ride down pit lane if your faster.

[STT-GUY]

EDIT: I give up...not a single post in this thread addresses the point of the issue. Good luck, and I sincerely hope your children aren't hurt or worse.


Ya, it's kind of scary that some of these riders don't get it. I hope an adult isn't seriousely hurt or worse making a self sacraficing choice not to take out a child.

[(diet)DrThunder]

Ya, it's kind of scary that some of these riders don't get it. I hope an adult isn't seriousely hurt or worse making a self sacraficing choice not to take out a child.

To be fair, if I can make a choice to sacrifice myself rather than hit another rider as the result of my mistake, I'll always take it regardless of who the other person is. but I understand and appreciate the sentiment.