The latest Powerstands rip off..

[Spooner]

I was flipping through the shiny new Tucker Rocky catalog that just arrived and was checking out the sport bike section. Noticed some 'click 'n roll' levers. I thought thats weird, they slightly messed up 'roll-a-click', and cool, TR picked up CRG. Well I kept looking and noticed they didn't have the CRG logo engraved but otherwise were absolutely and completely identical to CRG levers. No brand name was listed so I punched a part number into TRdealer and saw Powerstands listed as the manufacturer! If you look on their website you can see they list them (http://www.powerstands.com/) but the link doesn't work for the levers-the web guy is probably busy making exact copies of Pit Bull dampers to make sure they have ripped off every product they make :D

I guess this makes two exact rip offs for the CRG's now-they should be proud!

[cmra325]

I hear Powerstands is planning to release Vindows Wista soon.:D

[-1badr6-]

I saw that also yesterday.

-Nick

[Chip@KWS]

:rolleyes:

[El Skwid!]

I was thinking about getting in on their warmers deal, but after all the controversy about their other products, I'll pass.
Are the warmers "Tire Baker" knock offs?

[STT-GUY]

If there are patent violations and TR is made aware of it and continues to sell, they could be in the middle of a shit storm. If I were CRG I'd let TR know and TR may choose to withdraw the product.

Frank.. case law info??

[gothicbeast]

The website appears to have many things "Taken" from other people's ideas.

An example is the "PowerChock" looks like the Condor product.

http://www.powerstands.com/powerchock/PowerChock11.JPGhttp://www.condor-lift.com/images/pit_stop_index.jpg

I was going to buy there product but skipped it and bought PitBull's products, because of info on "PowerStands" taking other people's ideas.

Sure it's capitalism, but I don't have to support them either.

[Mongo]

And the Condor looks like the LA Chocks by Baxley....

[Buckwild]

And the beat goes on.
A class on the patent procedures will follow.

[Heavy-Dee]

Didn't Pazzo do it to CRG first?

[gothicbeast]

And the Condor looks like the LA Chocks by Baxley....

I don't think the Condor has the same quality as the Baxley Wheel Chocks... I have three of them and they are the best thing for towing I have ever bought. A few $$$, but Baxley's service was great when I had some powdercoat come off when I put a hot wheel into the chock at Miller last year.

http://www.baxleycompanies.com/Images/Sport-Chock-GSXR-750-medium.gif

The Baxley's design clamps into the wheel, and I don't see alot of people copying that design. Most just try to have a rear shoe that rotates around a pin.

+1,000,000 for the SportChock by Baxley

[Roach]

If there are patent violations and TR is made aware of it and continues to sell, they could be in the middle of a shit storm. If I were CRG I'd let TR know and TR may choose to withdraw the product.

Frank.. case law info??

CRG couldn't patent an adjustable lever. They may have been able to patent their particular adjustment mechanism, but I honestly doubt it. The thing with a patent is that it has to be novel and not obvious, especially when prior art is involved (i.e. a "normal" adjustable lever).

- Roach

[gixxernaut]

I had some powdercoat come off when I put a hot wheel into the chock at Miller last year.
Wow, Gothicbeast. I'd be pissed too if rolling a Hot Wheel into the chock would damage it. :D

http://home.comcast.net/~georgemc/BaxleyChockHotWheel.jpg

Sorry... couldn't resist...

[(diet)DrThunder]

http://home.comcast.net/~georgemc/BaxleyChockHotWheel.jpg


That is stupifyingly dumb...and it made me spit Diet Coke on my keyboard.

[Smokes35]

Diet Coke

is that statment going to cause problems with your Diet Dr. Thunder endorsement deal?

Dr. Thunder is gonna hire dr. pepper and mr pibb to beat your ass

[Spooner]

I don't mind if a company decides to design a cool aluminum anodized lever-Vortex just came out with some that look NOTHING like CRG, they actually made something from scratch. It just really bugs me when someone makes an exact copy of a popular product.

I haven't seen anyone make a copy of the baxley yet-their design is superior to anything else I have come across..

[jeremy dunn]

Where did you see the Vortex levers at? I couldn't find anything on their site

[Roach]

I haven't seen anyone make a copy of the baxley yet-their design is superior to anything else I have come across..

He has a patent on it. The number is stamped right on the nameplate :)

- Roach

[Spooner]

Where did you see the Vortex levers at? I couldn't find anything on their site

They are also in the new tucker catalog-I checked also and can't find them on the web.

[John29]

Ya gotta wonder about the self image of anybody who bases his business on copying other people's innovative designs instead of coming up with his own stuff...

[CALR1]

hyundia also copied honda

oh the drama!

[John29]

hyundia also copied honda



You are delusional.

[R Acree]

hyundia also copied honda

oh the drama!
And BMW copied the Corvair.

[.cbr!]

I don't mind if a company decides to design a cool aluminum anodized lever-Vortex just came out with some that look NOTHING like CRG, they actually made something from scratch. It just really bugs me when someone makes an exact copy of a popular product.

I haven't seen anyone make a copy of the baxley yet-their design is superior to anything else I have come across..

I am ashamed to admit that I bought a set of power stands stands... :down: while I was naive and dumb. Now I'm just dumb!

BUT, I also have a pair of Pitbull stands now too!!! :up: :up: :up:

[gothicbeast]

Ya gotta wonder about the self image of anybody who bases his business on copying other people's innovative designs instead of coming up with his own stuff...
People who copy other peoples designs have a great self image of themselves. They see NOTHING wrong in taking other peoples hard work and selling it to fatten their wallet.

Their basic business concept is of someone who just cares just about $$$. Find something of high quality with thoughtful features. buy a few, send them to China and have them produced in volume. Spend big on sponsorship deals and legitimize your product. Hook up with the major wholesalers and sell them in bulk for cheep.

The only bonus is the way Chinese manufacturers do business. If you buy enough from them, they will decide it's good business to sell your same product to other people. The market can become flooded and soon your buying the stuff at Harbor Freight for $11.

[gothicbeast]

Wow, Gothicbeast. I'd be pissed too if rolling a Hot Wheel into the chock would damage it. :D

http://home.comcast.net/~georgemc/BaxleyChockHotWheel.jpg

Sorry... couldn't resist...

I hated when I removed the hot wheel and it burned little hubcaps into my finger tips.

I am going matchbox from now on.

[crossroader]

And BMW copied the Corvair.

GM copied the VW engine for the Corvair. According to the story, GM engineers had a VW engine on the floor in the shop when they were designing the Corvair. They just added two more cylinders.
Too bad they used such a poor seals on the pushrod tubes, otherwise it was a decent engine unless you got the multiple carb. unit.

[John29]

Yeah, well, I don't remember any GM website (or brochure at the time) using a photo of a repainted VW engine...

[cincykid]

So I assume everyone here complaining does not buy Mr.Pibb (oh wait, thats dr. Pepper) or Mellow Yellow (mt. Dew Wannabe), or other products like that. Its like saying a grocery store cant carry their own brand of bread or other products in the grocery store unless they change the shape and color of it.
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT crg hasent already seen these things as well as pit bull and if it was an issue, the products would have already been gone.

Just my 2 cents.

[gothicbeast]

GM copied the VW engine for the Corvair. According to the story, GM engineers had a VW engine on the floor in the shop when they were designing the Corvair. They just added two more cylinders.
Too bad they used such a poor seals on the pushrod tubes, otherwise it was a decent engine unless you got the multiple carb. unit.

Yeah, and to be honest the PowerStands have some improvement on the basic lift design. I do like the idea that the stands come apart and make storage a bit better. But allot of there stuff just looks like a copy of something else.

When GM copies a VW design, they are using it as a Model or "Bench Mark Target". In most cases the parts are not COMPATIBLE with each other. Even worse if you take that part and repaint it and advertise it.

[John29]

So I assume everyone here complaining does not buy Mr.Pibb (oh wait, thats dr. Pepper) or Mellow Yellow (mt. Dew Wannabe), or other products like that. Its like saying a grocery store cant carry their own brand of bread or other products in the grocery store unless they change the shape and color of it.
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT crg hasent already seen these things as well as pit bull and if it was an issue, the products would have already been gone.

Just my 2 cents.


Uh, you're a little late to this discussion...somebody give this guy a link please...

[Spooner]

I don't think Mr. Pibb has the exact same ingredients as Dr. Pepper-yeah it tastes similar, its not the exact same.

The powerstands rearstands don't look like anyone else's that I see-they weigh about 3 times as much and are pretty bad quality, but hey-at least its their own design! :)

[Tortuga]

I think the comparisons to soda and bread and now-defunct cars are possibly good just for the sake of the sport of argument, but they miss the point here. The pool of potential consumers in the motorcycle industry is considerably smaller than that of any of the aforementioned products and that small group gets even smaller when it becomes just motorcycle racers. One way for a company to survive in that kind of market is to be an innovator of products that do something new for the consumer or do soemthing better than another product. When those innovations are stolen and knock offs made cheaper by someone who spent no time doing the R&D or evaluating the needs of the target consumer group it is just plain wrong. Regardless of whether or not it is legal.

[kjohnson]

In order to get your own patent on an existing design,20% difference is all that is required to bypass patent laws and proceed with production.I do not condone "chintzy copycat" designs.Flame on.Pitbulls for me (I have 4)

[Chip@KWS]

I think the comparisons to soda and bread and now-defunct cars are possibly good just for the sake of the sport of argument, but they miss the point here. The pool of potential consumers in the motorcycle industry is considerably smaller than that of any of the aforementioned products and that small group gets even smaller when it becomes just motorcycle racers. One way for a company to survive in that kind of market is to be an innovator of products that do something new for the consumer or do soemthing better than another product. When those innovations are stolen and knock offs made cheaper by someone who spent no time doing the R&D or evaluating the needs of the target consumer group it is just plain wrong. Regardless of whether or not it is legal.


This also limits innovation which ultimately hurts the end user (all of us) the most.

[Knarf Legna]

In order to get your own patent on an existing design,20% difference is all that is required to bypass patent laws and proceed with production.

KJ, don't know where you heard that but it's completely wrong. Plus you're saying two different things - the requirement for obtaining a patent and the requirement for producing something that is not infringing on an existing patent are not the same thing. That said, what gets special attention in a patent are the claims, and they must meet the usual test of non-obviousness, prior art and previous patents. A claim that's only 20% original won't have a prayer.

[Sacrilicious]

Why the hell can't powerstands at least pretend to have some design ability? If you're going to copy and manufacture shitty Chinese knock offs, at least change the design a little.

They are relying on poorly educated consumers who value price way over quality and country of origin.

[Britt]

Because it is far easier to put an existing part in the box and say "Copy It" then it is to acutally start with a clean sheet of paper and an Idea, or take an existing idea and improve on it.

[Johnny B]

hyundia also copied honda

oh the drama!

And BMW copied the Corvair.
Ain't no Korean company done a cheap knockoff of a Honda. Now if you want a real example of how somebody can f*** up a perfectly good car, I give you the Sterling 825. Crappy British electronics and coachwork on an Acura Legend chassis.

[Spooner]

The funniest thing is that they aren't even any cheaper-at least Pazzo make them cheaper when the copied them lol!

[kjohnson]

"A claim that's only 20% original won't have a prayer."

.....or 20% different.All in the legal phrasing/work I guess.Floyd Rose won his battle that way.I know 2 people who accomplished this (the 20% bit) in paintball supplies/equipment,and got doinked by the same 20% later in other people's "ideas".Don't ask me the details 'cause I didn't ask (lol).

[gothicbeast]

Ain't no Korean company done a cheap knockoff of a Honda. Now if you want a real example of how somebody can f*** up a perfectly good car, I give you the Sterling 825. Crappy British electronics and coachwork on an Acura Legend chassis.

Best part was the Sterling 825 was designed by Honda at HGT. The British parts was just a bonus, as the British needed to be suppliers :)

[Knarf Legna]

"A claim that's only 20% original won't have a prayer."

.....or 20% different.All in the legal phrasing/work I guess.Floyd Rose won his battle that way.I know 2 people who accomplished this (the 20% bit) in paintball supplies/equipment,and got doinked by the same 20% later in other people's "ideas".Don't ask me the details 'cause I didn't ask (lol).

Well, it does happen. Sometimes by the luck of the draw the USPTO assigns your case to an examiner who lets stuff slide, sometimes you get someone with a erection pointed in your direction. The real test is in the courtroom anyway, where the validity of the claims or the degree of infringement are tested for keeps.

[Focker]

The funniest thing is that they aren't even any cheaper-at least Pazzo make them cheaper when the copied them lol!

The Pazzo's aren't chinese either. They also prototype them to the individual bikes before producing them, rather than order the CRG and then copy it's specs.

As a side note, from what I heard, CRG shot themselves in the foot by not delivering on time and also undercutting their own dealer at Laguna when they had short shipped the same guy.

[Spooner]

You can't tell me they didn't copy those-the engraved sections and such are all identical. And maybe powerstands just copied the Pazzo stuff lol!

I do agree that CRG had a really bad supply problem-haven't ordered much recently from them but I know for quite a while it was impossible to get stuff from them.

[Focker]

Oh I'm sure he copied the original design, but at least he fits all the new models to the bike itself.

That and they are good quality and Markus is a pretty good guy.

[kjohnson]

"The real test is in the courtroom anyway, where the validity of the claims or the degree of infringement are tested for keeps."

Yep,interpretaion of the legal lingo.Or if there's enough profit to seriously consider legal pursuit.No wonder most lawyers do so well.

[.cbr!]

I don't think Mr. Pibb has the exact same ingredients as Dr. Pepper-yeah it tastes similar, its not the exact same.

The powerstands rearstands don't look like anyone else's that I see-they weigh about 3 times as much and are pretty bad quality, but hey-at least its their own design! :)

My PS rear stand doesn't seem very stable sometimes... makes me nervous! Thats why Karissa's bike is on it... lol.

[Roach]

I do agree that CRG had a really bad supply problem-haven't ordered much recently from them but I know for quite a while it was impossible to get stuff from them.

They signed a deal with Parts Unlimited last year for levers and mirrors. They've pretty much been readily available since then. It's not everything they make though, just the most popular stuff.

- Roach

[Spooner]

My PS rear stand doesn't seem very stable sometimes... makes me nervous! Thats why Karissa's bike is on it... lol.

haha! Thats why we only sell Pit Bull-I don't want a customer coming in pissed of because the 'el crappo stand I just sold them collapsed and their new gixxer 1k is on the round! :wow:

Yeah, I have been getting CRG through PU when I can since you save on shipping. I think I was having good luck through kyle racing before that.

[ttt637]

can someone scan the catalog page and post, i wouldlike to see these levers from both powerstands and vortex to see what all the fuss is about